[Iceman]

Originally Posted by rane

No, dont put words in my mouth. Ive only ever agreed to the tendency of bad slang writing and speaking (notice: no grammar mentioned here). I even mentioned examples (the z vs s, the wOOt word etc.) but still YOU twist it to force an opinion on me. Actually I've several times pointed out that I didnt think the original post was that badly written, but I guess you pull out the "it was edited" argument again then.

So you only dislike "tendencies". Blah. Tendencies don't write anything, people do. And you only dislike Z's and wOOt's? That's bullshit. You hate bad spelling as much as I do, but you just can't stand the fact that I've said it first.

Oh it did. And Im sure now that you and the word friendly certainly isnt a great match on these boards. Btw allow me to quote you from the original thread. You said somewhere: "And if you have to resort to insults, I suggest you don't post at all." - by your own logic you should rethink your posts before writing them, especially if they contain direct or indirect insults.

Yes, and I stand by that. I haven't posted one insult, you have posted several. And I challenge you to show any posts where I have insulted anyone. If you can, I'll show you several where you've used insults because you ran out of credible arguments. Which, BTW, is a good example of a bad argument technique. But then again, I'm sure you already know that.

Oh that isnt real arguments?

That isn't? Try "those aren't". And no, they are not. They're your opinions, not arguments.

I think majority would agree that they was.

Don't use the word "majority" when clearly that's not the case. You just think so, because it's your opinion. Show me the majority or don't speak about it.

I argue that people like polite people, not impolite.

No, what you actually argued was that the way I said is was impolite. Which, again is your opinion. Not an argument.

And that laziness doesnt equal rude.

That again, is your opinion. I, and many others, believe that on a message board writing bad posts because you're lazy, is rude. But again, that's no argument, that's your opinion.

And the discussion quickly converted into your sentences because of your stubborn not-logical claims and actions.

"Quickly converted"? Only because you started picking on them. Blame yourself. Show me one illogical claim I've made, or better yet "action".

"Your posts are getting ridiculous" - I take that as a compliment. It indicates to me that my points has some serious impact on you.

Oh please, don't give yourself too much credit. You have had no impact on anything here. Like I said, the likes of you come here every few months, try to act like sheriffs and then disappear. You say I'm the "forum cop"? Think about for a second what you're trying to do. Does the word "hypocrite" mean anything to you?

If you havent noticed, this is a completely normal and well-written debate about ethical issues where people are of different opinions. Going as low as saying the opponents posts are getting ridiculous, says more about the one saying it than the one it was meant for.

Your posts are ridiculous. You're trying to come up with "facts" and "arguments" where there are none. And I'm not the one insulting you, you're the one insulting me.

That's debatable. Edited or not, I think the original post looks fine and is quite legible.

Who cares what it looks to you? I don't. I care about the fact that the post is/was hard to read because of bad language, no punctuation and no paragaph changes. What's your argument that it was "fine"?

Its totally different when one sticks up for a person who was put through the forumcop teaching machine. Forum cops arent by definition against a whole post, but they're against spelling/grammar flaws. Unless of course you try to twist the definition to suit your own arguments.

Bullshit. You're just trying to justify breaking your own "rules". You used the term" forum cop", you've stated all these rules about what's allowed and what's not. I haven't. Twist it all you want, but you can't change that fact.

Face it already, you're in too deep. You've used up any arguments you had, lost, and now try desperately to gasp for air.

No, that only happened in your own head. I suspect you of writing stuff like this to confuse your "opponent", hoping he/she will think your right and back down. My arguments are just as good and valid as your own. They just dont fit into your thoughts, so you automatically put them down.

What arguments? You have none. You've already stated that you don't like bad posts any more than others here. The only argument you have left is the opinion on how rude you think post was. And that's not an argument, it's an opinion.

Maybe. Maybe not. I also want everyone in the world to stop doing crime, but Im pretty sure that wont happen.

Does that mean we should stop with police forces, forget all the laws and rules? Just because it will never happen? No.

Just the same, we shouldn't let people post badly written posts, rape the languge and teach kids to use illegible language.

I have to be careful about my next comment now, because you'll probably try to twist it and force an opinion on me yet again.

You hve to be careful, because you have no case. I've never forced an opinion on you, you did it all by yourself. If you're going to argue with me weather people like badly written or well written posts more, you should've picekd other opinion than me. If you think the same, it's kinda hard for you to argue.

But...I think that the language is being "raped" more often these days and I fear it will continue in the future. I dont blame lazy writers tho, but rather the media, the movies, the rap/hiphop and other spoiled music artists etc.etc.

If you fear that, why don't you do something about it. I do. You can't change the world at once, you do it little by little. Each person writing better English or any language is a change for the better.

Ice

[rane]

I will try to make a non-quoting post now, because you repeat yourself a lot in your previous answers. You keep pointing out I have opinions and no arguments at all, just to contradict yourself in another sentence saying I have only 1 argument left but then say its not an argument anyway. I might as well say that all your supposed arguments are opinions as well. Also, you start nitpicking in my writing all of the sudden. Something a forumcop would do actually.

I'll just quickly try to list a couple of my arguments:

- Acting rude towards people makes you look like an idiot (meaning: senseless)
- Laziness does not equal rudeness - you claiming that here is your OPINION but I argue that its logical that lazy is not the same as rude
- It's a fact that you made the thread go off-topic

Those are certainly not opinions but valid arguments and facts.

Regarding the "forumcop" thing. How many times should I write what the definition of a forumcop is? This isnt something I make up, but thats the general definition throughout most boards and newsgroups. If I myself (as you claim) became a half forumcop (for the off-topic commenting to your off-topic posts, not the spelling/grammar nitpicking as you suddenly started with now) only happend because I wanted to stand up for the original poster.

You being rude/insulting. Im not the only one who noticed it. Fiona Raven was actually the first who pointed it out and later more people pointed that out, which means that it was pretty obvious to other people as well. You might not (in your own righteous way of thinking) realize that yourself but here ya go. More people thought you were rude.

"I've never forced an opinion on you". Well you did try to claim that I dont LIKE posters who writes badly.

Btw. I dont remember insulting you? Ive said you seemed arrogant, proud and stubborn yeah but thats taken out of the things you write. Its facts/my opinion - not insults. So please show me where I've directly insulted you?

[Thomas Anderson]

Originally Posted by rane

- Acting rude towards people makes you look like an idiot (meaning: senseless)

See, now you're being insulting. Did you not look up the definition of idiot? We have valid arguments in that these people could present more legible posts. If we were idiots we probably wouldn't care.

Originally Posted by rane

- Laziness does not equal rudeness - you claiming that here is your OPINION but I argue that its logical that lazy is not the same as rude

Technically lazyness doesn't always equal rudeness no. In this instance however, by being lazy and not typing a full message, when they are capable of it - people are being rude in that others here will have difficulty reading their message. As someone said, you post on a message board with the hope of someone reading your message, so if you are too lazy to even type a legible one how can that not be construed as rude? It's almost like "Hey everyone, I couldn't be arsed to type a proper message, but I want you all to reply anyway!"

Originally Posted by rane

- It's a fact that you made the thread go off-topic

Actually Ice merely made a comment, yes the comment was off-topic, but he wasn't the one who started to argue and make the whole thread go off topic.

Originally Posted by rane

Those are certainly not opinions but valid arguments and facts.

No, still opinions.

Originally Posted by rane

Regarding the "forumcop" thing. How many times should I write what the definition of a forumcop is? This isnt something I make up, but thats the general definition throughout most boards and newsgroups. That I myself (as you claim) became a half forumcop (for the off-topic commenting to your off-topic posts, not the spelling/grammar nitpicking as you suddenly started with now) only happend because I wanted to stand up for the original poster.

A forumcop would surely be a moderator who actually has power to do something - not a poster who makes a comment, to which other people start an off-topic argument.

Originally Posted by rane

You being rude/insulting. Im not the only one who noticed it. Fiona Raven was actually the first who pointed it out and later more people pointed that out, which means that it was pretty obvious to other people as well. You might not (in your own righteous way of thinking) realize that yourself but here ya go. More people thought you were rude.

Yet those people were happy enough to read a post that wasn't easy to read, and they didn't think that was rude?

Originally Posted by rane

Btw. I dont remember insulting you? Ive said you seemed arrogant, proud and stubborn yeah but thats taken out of the things you write. Its facts/my opinion - not insults. So please show me where I've directly insulted you?

Well for one you called him an idiot in your last message, and you've just called him arrogant, proud and stubborn - based merely on the fact that he likes to be able to read a message which is well written.

[rane]

Originally Posted by Thomas Anderson

See, now you're being insulting. Did you not look up the definition of idiot? We have valid arguments in that these people could present more legible posts. If we were idiots we probably wouldn't care.

No Im not. In fact, according to yourself, its ok to call people idiots when you mean they're "senseless". You even looked up the word yourself which is the only reason I used the word in this case. You approved it, mate.

Originally Posted by Thomas Anderson

Technically lazyness doesn't always equal rudeness no. In this instance however, by being lazy and not typing a full message, when they are capable of it - people are being rude in that others here will have difficulty reading their message. As someone said, you post on a message board with the hope of someone reading your message, so if you are too lazy to even type a legible one how can that not be construed as rude? It's almost like "Hey everyone, I couldn't be arsed to type a proper message, but I want you all to reply anyway!".

Thats your opinion. Theres weak points in your claim. Other factors that could have had influence on, why the original poster according to you, didnt write a legible post. You claim. Its not fact.

Originally Posted by Thomas Anderson

Actually Ice merely made a comment, yes the comment was off-topic, but he wasn't the one who started to argue and make the whole thread go off topic.

Its well-known that once an off-topic post/comment is posted, its more than likely that more will follow, especially when the comment was "extreme" as you put it earlier. He should know this.

Originally Posted by Thomas Anderson

No, still opinions.

"argument" in the dictionary:

2c. A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others

- When you act rude, people will think your senseless. Its a logical conclusion.
- Being lazy have logically nothing to do with how polite/impolite you are
- Iceman wrote something not relevant to the thread topic. Logically this makes it go off-topic

This is certainly not my opinions, but logical conclusions. Thus...valid arguments, even according to the dictionary.

Originally Posted by Thomas Anderson

A forumcop would surely be a moderator who actually has power to do something - not a poster who makes a comment, to which other people start an off-topic argument.

No, a moderator makes sure threads stay on-topic and locks them if foul language or other bashing happens. A forumcop is the diet coke of moderators. He/she primarily do in spelling and grammar, plus sometimes points out if a post is off-topic. In this case, Iceman was a forumcop.

Originally Posted by Thomas Anderson

Yet those people were happy enough to read a post that wasn't easy to read, and they didn't think that was rude?

Apparently so. I agree with them, the post wasnt rude at all.

Originally Posted by Thomas Anderson

Well for one you called him an idiot in your last message, and you've just called him arrogant, proud and stubborn - based merely on the fact that he likes to be able to read a message which is well written.

No, it was based on his way of writing. Calling someone proud is hardly an insult. Stubborn...well he kept saying he didnt care about anything, he would keep doing it etc.etc. so stubborn is not an insulting word here. Arrogant is merely based on the fact that he did put some effort into informing me that he's been here for years, and everyone else not staying that long werent good enough etc. Again, not really insulting but a logical conclusion to draw after reading his posts.

So now that those 3 words cant really be used as valid insult words, the "idiot" part remained which I already explained why I used that word. Look further up. Not an insult, according to yourself

[Thomas Anderson]

I can't even be bothered to reply any more because this is just going 'round in circles. You didn't even see the original post, only the edited one, so any points you make about it are pointless.

[Iceman]

I agree, this is pointless. Rane doesn't even know what he's said anymore. He can't keep up with his own opinions or "facts" and changes what he means by "forum cop" or other terms in every post.

Here are my opinions one last time, after this I'm done:

You should NOT post badly written posts on a message board. Occasional mistake is fine, but you should use capital letters, correct punctuation and paragraph changes.

You can read more on this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette

Check the paragraph marked "Forum etiquette". An abbreviation for Rane, since he seems to have trouble reading and understanding what he reads:

* One should always be courteous to other forum members.
* Contributors should follow standard grammar and spelling rules and avoid slang.

And even if Rane doesn't like it, I'm going to continue to point out badly written posts.

Oh, and FYI (that's an abbreviation commonly used on message board, meaning For Your Information), there's no such thing as a "forum cop" or anything of that nature. It's a phrase Rane has coined all on his own and I guess therefore he's allowed to change the meaning of the term to suit his needs.

***

A panda walks into a café. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and proceeds to fire it at the other patrons.

“Why?” asks the confused, surviving waiter amidst the carnage, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

“Well, I'm a panda,” he says at the door. “Look it up.”

The waiter turns to the relevant entry in the manual and, sure enough, finds an explanation. “Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves.”

***

Ice

[rane]

I agree its going round in circles.

However I find it rather amusing that Iceman claims I dont know what Ive written earlier. Sure seems like this time Iceman is throwing things at the wall that doesnt stick. My definition of the forumcop for example has been the same all along, i've repeated it so many times. But of course a finishing post should contain some negative stuff about the "opponent".

*Sigh* yes you found a wikipage on net etiquette. I think #2, #7 and #12 in the forum etiquette section fits our discussion very well. The last one applies to me too.

I guess the most important point from me in this entire discussion, is a point that you dont care about and you will continue doing. Treating socalled lazy people in a bad way cause they deserve it in your opinion. What ever happend to tolerance and politeness.

Take care.

[Thomas Anderson]

Originally Posted by rane

Treating socalled lazy people in a bad way cause they deserve it in your opinion. What ever happend to tolerance and politeness.

If a person is not willing to type a clear message then they are not being polite, and therefore they do not deserve politeness from anyone else.

[rane]

You had to write a reply more

Last post from me ending with: But do they deserve rudeness? If so, your no better yourself.

EOD from here.

[Thomas Anderson]

Originally Posted by rane

But do they deserve rudeness? If so, your no better yourself.

If they aren't even willing to string together a coherant message, and I point that out, it isn't I who is the rude one - unless I reply in an equally incoherant manner.