alec john such

how pathetic. At least good that you know you are a wannabe (and not a wannabee).That's what I meant.


again, the astonishing logic of Supersonic. Wonderful. Well, once more: there was no point for idiots, there was a point for people who have half a brain. Thank you!


oh, no! what did I do? don't start repeating yourself, read what you have written.

it never was about causing confusion - you are to dumb for that. I just meant you BEING CONFUSED. Hope that's clear enough this time. Need some chocolate?


the same "we" again? it's really amazing how you bash most of the people here just to join them into a big collective "we". Well, now you wanted to answer that "we" does not stand for the people on jovitalk, but again, whoever owns half a brain understood it. People who are balancing trying to become members of certain groups are usually very afraid and try to isolate the "enemy" , the "threat" by creating an illusion of power backed up by the "we". Unfortunately, the "we" does not exist and I am quite sure that it's only the fact that you are behind a keyboard which allows you to behave like this. Wow! You need to pay me for that, when your brain grows bigger and allows you to get a job, etc...

It's crap, I admit! It's also nice that you know that I know that it's crap which actually proves that you have a higher opinion of me than you actually think you have. Well, nevermind! Answer 2 questions:
1)How many times did you look over to Hugh during the concerts you attended?
2)How many times do you look at Alec when you watch bootleg videos, shot from the crowd?

Bon Jovi could have certainly found a better live replacement for Alec and that would've been a good solution.

Well, and this is of course coming entirely from opinion, I like all three of their voices better than Jon's. And I like David and Richie as a songwriting team better than Jon and Richie or Jon and David. And I like both Richie and David's writing on their own (from David I'm talking a purely instrumental standpoint, since he's never done his own lyrics) better than Jon's on his own, with a couple exceptions.

I realize, rereading that, how much it sounds like I'm knocking Jon. I could have worded it better.

You mention Jon having brains and business sense - yes, absolutely he does. If it were anyone else in the lead role, they wouldn't have anywhere near the longevity they have. I wasn't talking about a business role, though. I was responding to BeExcellent's comments about how music isn't just based on musical ability, and I was talking in a strict playing-singing-songwriting sense, forgetting business and politics and industry norms and all that crap, Jon is lower in my estimation than David and Richie and (this one's just a 'probably' because you're right, he isn't a great songwriter, and his voice isn't versatile enough to do much) Tico.

It wasn't meant as a knock on Jon as a frontman. Not even a knock on him as a pure musician because even going on that he's still waaay up there on my "awesome" list.

(Most people, I would have stopped reading that post after "It's not like Dave and Tico are great songwriters or singers" because you KNOW I think David is great. But I knew you'd be making a reasonable point.)

Yeah, what you said sounded very harsh! LOL I like Tico's voice better than Richie or Dave's, but I know he's not going to appeal to the masses. I like Dave's better than Richie's, but most people don't think either Tico or Dave are great singers. Whenever I play their stuff to friends/family the most common reaction is, "I know why he's not the lead singer." It's all a matter of opinion on who sings well. I personally think Jon has an incredible voice, one of the best and most versatile in the business. You look at someone like Celine Dion who, yeah, can hit lots of notes... but can you imagine her singing Bad Medicine or It's My Life? Jon has the kind of voice that is almost limitless in his ability to perform different styles. He sings with emotion and passion and makes you feel the words to the songs. His focus on stage isn't on playing instruments, but it's not like he can't play (guitar, bass, piano, drums, harmonica). Something magical would be lost if Jon was playing all the time instead of reaching the audience the way he does.

I agree with you that Dave writes great instrumental songs. But even on his solo CDs, there are many collaborations. With Dave and Richie both, you don't have a really strong picture of them as individual songwriters.

So, in the what-if world that inspired this post, I still say on a strictly, singing-songwriting-playing sense, Jon would be the most successful of the group. He has shown that he is a songwriter on his own. He's a player on his own. He's a great singer and one of the best entertainers in the industry. I think Jon gets knocked unfairly quite a bit when people are building up the other guys. It doesn't take knocking Jon to compliment one of the other band members or vice versa. They're all very talented. Jon is very talented. He's not skimming buy on his looks. If he didn't have talent and brains, he could have had a moment of popularity, but never 23 years. Contrary to what Bon Jovi's critics say, people do not buy CDs because of what people look like. They're too damn expensive--you can get a magazine instead.

Aloha !

That would be had the kind of voice. There's no way he's able to sing in so many different styles like he used to back in the nineties.

You must not forget that the way he plays the guitar, piano, drums and harmonica is actually very average. Just the basics anyone could learn.

True, but who says that the hooks from the songs from the past haven't been coming from Richie? I know you're talking about the songs Jon has written individually, but when it comes to solo stuff, the hooks in I'll Be There For You and Bad Medicine and the likes sound more like Richie songs than actual Jon songs.

Based upon what is this? If Jon didn't get lucky with that song on the radio, he'd still be cleaning a studio and washing cars and stuff like that. He learned a lot thru the process of being famous, but it's not like he was the smartest guy out there.

Yes they do. If this wouldn't be true, the Britneys wouldn't have been dominating the charts for so long. It's not just the song that does the work. People see Britney on TV, remember her as sexy, focus on the image and the song is in the background. Then they hear the song on the radio, remember the sexy feeling and it only makes them like the song because of the feeling. Sure, the catchy things of the pop songs has got something to do with it, but if it'd be purely because of the songs, they wouldn't put so much effort in finding a new pop princess with a tight ass and nice boobs.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

It's not like Richie, Dave, or Tico are the "best" on their instruments in the business either. There are always better individual players. What's magic about Bon Jovi is what they create together.


Which is a guessing game because Richie co-writes most of his solo songs. If they don't explicitly say, "I wrote this part" we don't know. I never would have thought Jon came up with the riffs in Undivided and Hook Me Up, but one of the interviews posted on BJ.com said that. I wouldn't have guessed that it was Richie who wanted to bring back Tommy and Gina for It's My Life, but it was. Even an educated guess is just a guess. Jon's written other solo songs and other collaborations that sound very much like Jon/Richie collaborations (his work with Aldo Nova, for instance).


Based on the same thing you're using... a guess. If Jon hadn't gotten lucky with that song, he may have gotten lucky with something else. Or he may have done something else entirely. If Jon hadn't gotten signed, who's to say Richie would have made it in the music business? He auditioned for KISS, that doesn't mean he would have made it with them. He might never have gotten a big break to shine as a bandmember or a solo artist. Dave probably would have gone on to medical school. Tico had been in the business for years and was still playing the local scene. He and Al probably never would have had the kind of success they've had with Bon Jovi. But it's ALL speculation.


But do they buy Britney for 23 years? Not according to David Cassidy, Leif Garrett, Donny Osmond, Tiffany, etc. Even a sex kitten like Madonna has substance, business sense, and writes her own songs. She knows how to market herself. She can't sell on looks alone either. Maybe I'm mistaken because it goes so far against what I personally do, but I can't believe singificant portion of the music buying market would waste money year after year on an artist because they like the way someone looks. I'm sure there are people that stupid (with that much disposable income), but I think it's a minority. To me, $15 is a lot to spend for a photograph.

That actually surprises me, with how much Dave sounds like Elton John. But yeah, that's a purely opinion thing.

I can picture her singing You Shook Me All Night Long. That's one of those memories I wish would go away, though.

I'd say Richie's just as versatile as Jon, and at least as passionate. And he does that while playing. I bet David could match Jon for that if he really tried, but that's not based on anything concrete. He couldn't go high, but Jon can't anymore either.

On Lunar Eclipse, only 5 out of the 15 songs were collaborations. I have no idea what the numbers are for Netherworld and On A Full Moon, though.

Very true. I'm doing some weird kind of math here. If David + Richie is better than Jon + Richie or Jon + David (this one is questionable, since I actually have no idea how much David writes when he writes with Jon. I thought Last Cig sounded "David-y" but apparently he didn't write that so the David-y-ness might be something else) that means, to me, that Jon brings less to that table (for me, I know most people don't feel the same) quality-wise than David or Richie.

But you're right, I don't have a good idea of what they're like on their own enough to justify it. I'm going by what I can get.

I still say Richie is above him at the very least. Remember I'm talking strictly musical ability here, so being a better "entertainer" doesn't count (but yes, Jon is most certainly one of the best). I'd put him and David on an even keel, talent-wise. Well, no, I'd put David way ahead. But that's personal preference coming in.

You're absolutely right. And I should have worded that original post better. Chalk it up to still being annoyed he forgot David

Jon's talented, they're all talented. The issue I have is with the recognition they get - in a world based solely on talent, not on good hair and inhumanly shiny teeth and being good at bouncing around on stage and talking to people (and I'm not saying that's all there is to Jon. Not at all. I'm saying if you took that away, his musical ability wouldn't keep him at the level of success/recognition he's gotten to) it'd be far, far more even.

He was already planning on Juilliard when he joined up. But that's just me being nitpicky - I get your point, that they wouldn't have gotten big without Bon Jovi. And David wouldn't have gotten big, because at very very best he would have been the "second-rate Billy Joel" or something.

Jon's still the superior songwriter IMO. There are countless people who can play a song, but no one can play them if they're not written. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

In a perfect world, yes, everyone who knows who Jon is would know who Dave and Tico are. Richie would get more attention for his guitar than who he's sleeping with. But that's just not the way the media works. I could probably name you the singers of at least 20 bands off the top of my head, not necessarily even bands I like! Singers always get the press. They're the voice in the studio and on the stage and that transfers to the media. That's not unique to Bon Jovi. If you look further, more people would know the lead guitarist and singer even if they couldn't name the drummer and bass player. Typical media exposure--it's been that way since and maybe even prior to Mick Jagger and Keith Richards.

That works.

Oh I know it's not unique to Bon Jovi. And I know that's how it is, and always has been, and likely always will be. Doesn't mean I have to like it. Frankly, a world based entirely on talent would be boring as all Hell. Every musician would be a Hugh.

Noooooo... It would be fun. We wouldn't be able to move for Frank Zappas.