alec john such

While I must admit that I bought the "mistakes" explanation originally. I'm more skeptical of it now.

Is it possible that Alec's age and image had something to do with it? I mean look what great shape Jon, Ritchie, David, and Tico keep themselves in. Maybe the felt Alec didn't have the same level of commitment?

I mean look at him now...

pffffffffft

I got bored reading other people slag each other off. has anyone mentioned that richie often makes vocal mistakes i.e i'll sleep when i'm dead. (although he is the most talented in the band) Also did anyone mention that hugh was good enough to play for alice cooper in the past so he can't be that bad. Best thing about alec (apart from his hair) was his sky high backing vocals. does any body know if the hughie mcdonald that played on runaway is the very same huge mcdonald that plays now?

Arrrgghh, I hate these Alec threads!!

I've changed my mind somewhat lately about the whole Hugh vs. Alec thing. I'm definately still 100% an Alec fan, and musically, I just cannot seperate the two (Alec wins in the vocals stakes though..)

So, it does comes down to who looked the part, who looked the coolest on stage, and who just screamed 'I'm in a Rock band!' And that, was most definately Alec all the way imo.. \m/ (That 3rd photo down - That IS Bon Jovi..)

I have only heard him make one mistake tbh, and that was on that radio promo during 'Blood On Blood' i think. I've heard Jon and Richie make more mistakes than I ever heard Alec make..

And, looking at those photos, he doesn't look any older than Tico imo..

BUT, I cannot deny something went wrong with Alec, he definately 'dropped the ball' as someone on here has stated.

And I also cannot deny what 'RoboHuge' has done for the band, and how important he has been in the bands history.

(And, yes, it is the same 'hughie' as on the original version of 'Runaway'..)

So, fair play to Hugh, top bloke all round, but I'll always be an Alec fan me.. Hope he's cool and still Rockin' out there somewhere \m/

RICHIE - fantastic guitarist, and v difficult to separate from say Frusciante, Brian May etc etc. Who's best is based mostly on the material they play.

TICO - he's a drummer, has a minor input into the band creatively (one single co-writing credit in 20years). He plays whats he's told to play, doesnt cock up, and can sing. So he's fine.

DAVID - he's pretty much a virtuoso pianist, its just a shame all he gets to do with BJ is play daft synth sounds, and cheesy keyboard intros (Joey, RSOW). Do you know a better keyboard/piano player in a band??


and that leaves..

JON - great singer 10 years ago....now he's not so good.

Ben Folds, Jason Robert Brown (hands down the best pianist I have ever seen - check out the solo at the end of "She Cries" here - http://www.jasonrobertbrown.com/webl...ershe_crie.php) , Tori Amos, Jim Steinman, Roy Bittan (late edit) Page Mcconell (sp?)l. .

Entirely agree that David should get more of a chance to shine, though, even if he is a little schmaltzy for my taste.

It's all your opinion vs. someone else's. When given the opportunity to compile "best of" lists, critics nor fans rank Richie, Dave, Tico, or Jon all that high. Critics aside, either Bon Jovi fans aren't voting or the general public isn't as biased as we are as fans. No, I don't think Richie's that difficult to separate from Brian May. People would argue you down that Eddie Van Halen, Slash, Mark Knofler, Jimi Hendrix, and Joe Perry are better guitarists. I think Rick Neilsen from Cheap Trick doesn't get nearly the acclaim he deserves. Listen to Live at Budokan which was recorded nearly 30 years ago. He's amazing!

Dave is extremely talented, but he's not Elton John or Floyd Kramer. You don't know a song instantly from his touch. I've always said Dave is Bon Jovi's secret weapon. He made them sound different from their peers. How many of their peers even had a full time keyboard player? Dave helped set Bon Jovi apart.

It's easy to say the guys in your favorite band are the best because they're the best TO YOU, but it's all subjective in the end. I'm not arrogant enough to think that because *I* think Jon is (still) one of the best singers out there that it's fact or that everyone should agree with me. I can think you've all got bad taste if you don't though. But it's just a matter of TASTE, not who's right or wrong.

People confuse their opinions with the facts all the time. When it comes to musicianship, all this talk of who's better is just a battle of opinions.

That's an intersting pair to compare.

In terms of Innovation, Brian May wins hands down. His dense harmonies, measured precision, and use of delay is INSTANTLY recognsable.

I can't remember who pointed it first out, but Richie doesn't have that kind of individual distinctive style. He cab play in many textures, and is perhaps more versatile, however doesn't really seem to have too much of an individual voice... Except maybe his solo solos (not in songs!)... The Little Wing, I think, that got played on the KTF tour being the obvious example.

On the other hand, though, Brian May is an irritating, simpering human being and this does come through in his playing sometimes.

Hell Yes!!!!!!!! Cheeap Trick are just about THE most underrated band of all time. Competeing for the accolade only with Dexy's Midnight Runners and the mighty JELLYFISH!!!!!!!.

They are top of the list of bands who would be ****ing huge if musicianship were what truly counted. Rick's ability to combine Rythym and Lead styles, to constantly surprise and piush boundaries is unparralleled. AND he is full of personality. Robin may be the singer in the band, but Rick is soooo the frontman and the visual focus.

The songwriting shown on all the albums up to Dream Police, Cheap Trick 97 (The best 99cents you will ever spend on amazon used and new!) and even discs like Lap of Luxary and Next Position Please is abslutely incredible.

And as for Bun. E Carols...... The only drummer I've ever seen whose solos are the highlight of the entire show. Truly a legend. To plug Live at Budokan again, the Aint that a Shame Introduction leaves you begging for more.

I do think he is recognisable, It's just the arpeggio overload can become a bit grating.

I'm curious - why?

I like Jon's purity and the welcome in his voice, but would still argue he is a much better front man than a singer.

As someone else pointed out, Jovi is truly greater than the sum of its parts.


This argument has limits. Ir CAN be applied to guitarists of similar talents, but there are still those who can pull of more licks than others in a greater variety of styles.

I will end on the question - does the music Bon Jovi play push it's members to their musical limits? IF not, what do you think they could achieve if they went all out?

I think you're right about that. Robin is one hell of a vocalist. Those Bon Jovi fans who miss Jon hitting those high notes would probably enjoy his vocals, don't you think? I've never had the pleasure of seeing them live. I had planned to last year, but the venue they were going to play was destroyed by Katrina.

You also mentioned Tori Amos in an earlier post--have you seen her live? She's phenomenal, amazing.... I'd love to sit down and talk to her. She's so brilliant that I think she's in her own little world. Know what I mean?

I LOVE Jon's voice. I love listening to his voice NOW more than I love listening to his voice THEN (prior to 1990). Jon has the kind of versatility in his voice that a lot of singers don't. Compare him to Celine Dion. She's got a great range and can hit the high notes. I don't think anyone would say she's not a great singer. But she doesn't have the versatility Jon does. Jon can sing a bombastic rock song like HAND, a sweeping ballad like Bed of Roses, a country song like Who Says or the duets with Willie Nelson and Chris Ledoux; he can hold his own singing a duet with Pavoratti; he can pull out standard like "My Funny Valentine" (and one of his best vocals was How Long Has This Been Going On). Jon makes ME feel the song.

I went to the Omaha show with 3 people who were not really Bon Jovi fans and they all left the show commenting on what a powerful singer Jon is, how great they thought he sounded and how they appreciated that he really sang. I was interested in hearing their views since they weren't "biased."

I think he's both a great singer and a great frontman.

I'm one of the people who pointed that out.

More songs of the quality of Dry County???? Songs of that quality that won't bore the casual fans in the audience?

That's something left only to our imaginations.

It could be argued that critics overlook them because, as stupid as it is, Bon Jovi does have a stigma around it of being "fun but crappy" music. A critic wouldn't put any of them on a "best of" list because Jovi aren't considered one of those bands who have talent below a surface level of making fun rock songs.