Any Hope Left?

I'm going to toss some kudos towards Kuba. The board really does need more of this. It's one thing to be a critical thinker towards the band, but we really do tend to take it over the top here.

I keep saying to those that are on a non-stop bitch fest over the band to take a break. Though most read it as me giving the finger and telling them to **** off. A break is exactly what I did that has me on a more upbeat approach. I also have the KISS experience under my belt..so if you want to talk about disappointments and baffling business decisions I'll be happy to school you. I've learned that it's too easy to get too critical the longer you hang on with certain expectations. I can jump in the with lot of you shitting on everything the band has done post 2000, but I just got tired of doing it.

Time away listening to and discovering other bands let me come back with a less jaded take. I think what it really takes is to step back and look at the band's entire career and see it as a rich/varied body of work rather than setting expectations based on precedent. I loved the 90s for the artistic maturity. To expect more of what was done then disregards everything else that factors in to their individual and collective lives. I have plenty of ideas about what I think they should be doing or not doing. I've learned I'm going to enjoy it all more just taking in the experience with less judgement.

The bitching and criticism isn't going to change a thing and is mostly based on our own preconceived ideas about what they should or shouldn't be doing. You are more likely to miss out on something because you're too busy taking issue with something. So you loved the 90s, whatever they do now isn't going to erase what they've done. It just adds to the rich and varied selection. For all the accusations of recycling It's My Life with subsequent first singles....I don't find the era to be overly re-hashed. Each album has a distinct flavor and sound.

I've always enjoyed coming to the board and reading more positive takes on what the band has done. They lend a perspective I may not already have as well as point out that I may be missing out on something while I'm busy bitching. You can justify your bitching as being clarity, but it's really just being too jaded from spending way too much time on the band.

Fallacy. The guitar solo was changed because of the many people expressing their dislike for it. If Jon really does put rarities in the setlists, it would be because of the outcry and requests for them. Jon heard the complaints over his fan club show and what did he do? He played a f_uckin' excellent setlist. They listen but they change what they want to chnage.

Fill me in on the details and facts of all of that please. Can you link to where they make statements that verify the above?

As for the fanclub show....I was never under the impression he played those songs because the fans twisted his arm....I always saw it as Jon playing exactly what he wanted to play. Where is it noted that he played them due to fan complaints?

The thing about the solo is true. Jon said in an interview that he saw some kid playing a longer solo on youtube and showed it to Richie. Then they added the solo before the album was released. Jon admitted they initially weren't planning a different solo than the one on the radio release.
Of course, the same people who were bitching the most, still called the song shit, and that the solo felt "added".
And now this will be used this to justify the bitching for years ahead.

I agree with that. It's great how people can be positive towards the band's recent output and just accept it for what it is, but in my case I can't accept something I don't like. I agree that there are good songs on The Circle, as there have on the recent albums that preceded The Circle, but in my opinion the albums as a whole have been very weak from Bon Jovi's standards.

It's not us that have a pre-conceived opinion about what the band should and shouldn't be doing it's the band itself. Every record I listen to I listen to with an open mind, but it seems the band has to satisfy a set criteria with every record that they make. The same criteria that they've been trying to satisfy since 2000. There is just no passion in it any more which can make it sound false and boring.

The solo bit doesn't surprise me or take anything away. The complaint I've had is I think the backing music needs something more to carry it. The lyrics are actually pretty good from where I sit. For all the flack it gets and my own initial apathy upon downloading it from Itunes, I find I listen to it quite a bit off the album for some explicable reason.

Frankly, I think that is the mistake too many here are making as of late.

I find the album to be loaded with passion in a way that they haven't put towards a studio album in this manner in years.

As someone who gets quite annoyed at some of the criticism Bon Jovi gets, I always try to defend them within reason. If Bon Jovi create something I don't like, I admit. For example, 'Any Other Day' is a song I despise and in past threads people have been kind of shocked about this.

Overall, for the most part, the stick Bon Jovi gets from this board is unfair. An example of this is 'WWBTF's solo being changed, as it made no difference to the song and it sounded better originally, even if it is a truly horrid song.

What I have noticed, though, is that often criticism here can be respectable. I can see why people would get frustrated when the setlists were never changing(second leg of the North American Lost Highway tour), and when more and more people started to complain, it seemed as if towards the end setlists were becoming more varied. Who knows, the board's comments may have nothing to do with this, but as has been pointed out, Richie changed the WWBTF solo and I have saw comments from other board members that Jon has in the past or does still sometimes read around here.

So, my fellow jovitalkers, I have some time, I'm watching the snow falling and listening to the new dvd. Since we have nominations for everything, I'll have to nominate Kuba's post as the best and most memorable one I've read this year. It's a good, fresh perspective to most issues on this board. It has soul and I believe Bon Jovi haven't lost their soul either.
I had a recent chance to see Jon at the Unplugged concert at Lincoln Center The director of the documentary went on and on how he's been telling Jon to do more intimate shows, not just big stadiums. Jon's answer was that he would put in the same effort, no matter how small or large the audience is. He sounded for real and I believed it and saw it with my own eyes that he put his heart into the performance. He does that for the big shows as well.
Aren't you grateful, happy, content at least that the band is still around and not only that, but doing so well? What if we were watching our old bootlegs and wishing we could see them live at least once? Even though I go to many shows around NYC, I appreciate it as a dream come true every time and think of all the people around the world, who wish they were under the same roof as Bon Jovi at that moment
Just as Kuba, I feel like I would stand by the band no matter what and because Bon Jovi are a big part of my life, I defend them when most of my friends and relatives don't understand why I like them so much. I only have one friend who is diehard and we always go to shows together. Howerever, I decided to change that on the last couple of tours and took many friends who aren't real fans, but wanted to see what the fuss is all about. Well, most of them want to go a second time and are asking that I take them again when they see my new tickets lined up on the top shelf, waiting for the day to come
About this board? Even though I come here mostly for info and avoid confrontations, I feel like I also have to support the band, but against who? People who have followed them closer than I have over the years, who have been to more shows or have every single live recording, which I do not have?
It's ridiculous.
Well, Happy New Year to all and it feels like this will be a great year filled with Jovi! Peace!

Angie, I really enjoyed your post and related to much of what you said. However, I am so different than most of you. As weird as it sounds, I just discovered Bon Jovi!
I know most of you have followed this band since the 80s- and know every recording and have attended numerous live performances. I only discovered them after I saw WWWB on Showtime. Stuck home with a broken leg, I started reading everything I could about the band and now own 6 CDs, got tickets to see them in Tampa, and try to read all of your posts. ( Yes I was around in the 80s, but just too busy with life to listen... I guess.)
I love all of the music, from The Circle to Slippery. I read some of the "bitching" from you guys and go back to listen to the tapes to see if I hear Jon losing his voice, or Richie messing up the solo. Since I dont have all of your expertise, I only hear and see the greatness. So even if the music has changed, even if the band has aged, the fact that they can still find a brand new fan like me-- well that should mean a lot. Keep on posting and happy new year!