Billy Corgan says Bon Jovi is "formulaic"

Rdkopper · #21 07-27-2012, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danfan

As for Def Leppard - Two Steps Behind and When Love and Hate Collide, both 1993.

GNR was the biggest band in the world in 1992. TSI wasn't until 1994 I believe.

Yes, Metallica was much bigger in the 90's than in the 80's. Can't believe anyone would even try and argue that. The Black album came out in 1991.

When Love & Hate Collide was in '95 off their Vault: Greatest Hits album which was supposed to be their Always. It only peaked at 58 in the US.

TSI was in late 1993 and the tracks were leftovers from the Use Your Illusion albums which Axel initially wanted to be a 4 disc box set.

Metallica - I'm talking mid 90's. Blaze Of Glory came out in 1990 and singles crossed into '91 but I don't consider that a 90s album.

These Days wasn't the flop everyone here thinks it was. It just didn't measure in comparison to their other albums. There was no room on radio for Bon Jovi in ’95 but yet they still got airplay, had a modest hit with Love Song, The album peaked at #9 which was a huge success for a band like Bon Jovi at that time, and sold a million copies. Plus everything I stated in my initial post. They got on the MTV award show in Time Square. They still had relevance where all the other bands were long finished

They were killing it overseas so a lot of time was spent promoting over there.

DevilsSon · #22 07-27-2012, 05:28 PM

Rdkopper, I don't think anyone takes you seriously tbh, and you are certainly not worth any of my time, but just a little hint, most of the BIG grunge albums were recorded and released between 1991 and 1992. Afterwards, even Grunge went downhill until it collapsed with Cobain's death in 1994.

Pearl Jam - Ten - 1991
Nirvana - Nevermind - 1991
Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger - 1991
Alice in Chains - Dirt - 1992

I think only Soundgarden was able to actually top Badmotorfinger with Superunknown a couple of years later. Still, picking '1992' as your reference year makes very little sense, even by your standards. Just saying.

ticos_stick · #23 07-27-2012, 05:44 PM

Alice In Chains weren't really grunge. They were just associated with it for being from Seatle and becoming big when the grunge scene was huge. I'd class them as hard rock with classic / acoustic influences.

DevilsSon · #24 07-27-2012, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ticos_stick

Alice In Chains weren't really grunge. They were just associated with it for being from Seatle and becoming big when the grunge scene was huge. I'd class them as hard rock with classic / acoustic influences.

I know and I agree (although Dirt does sound fairly grungy)...but these bands are seen as the big 4 of grunge and certainly, even Alice in Chains are 'more grunge' than Smashing Pumpkins or Red Hot Chilli Peppers.

Captain_jovi · #25 07-27-2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

If Bon Jovi were a flop after '92, what was Always in '94 genius? Cross Roads sold 5 million albums because of that song.

This Ain't A Love Song peaked at number 14 in '95 and These Days still managed to crank out a million copies.

I don’t know why I even reply to your posts and give you the time of day. I thought after a year or so you’d grow-up. I need to go back to ignoring you again.

I'm not trying to discredit Always in any way here but it sold what it sold both because of the song and because it was a GREATEST HITS album. That had a lot to do with it too. I agree about Def Leppard. Adrenalize did decently but nothing close to what they did in the 90's. You can completely write off Slang though.

Rdkopper · #26 07-27-2012, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Rdkopper, I don't think anyone takes you seriously tbh, and you are certainly not worth any of my time, but just a little hint, most of the BIG grunge albums were recorded and released between 1991 and 1992. Afterwards, even Grunge went downhill until it collapsed with Cobain's death in 1994.

Pearl Jam - Ten - 1991
Nirvana - Nevermind - 1991
Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger - 1991
Alice in Chains - Dirt - 1992

I think only Soundgarden was able to actually top Badmotorfinger with Superunknown a couple of years later. Still, picking '1992' as your reference year makes very little sense, even by your standards. Just saying.

So typical, anytime someone calls anyone out around here for being an idiot, that person responds back by calling them "Ignorant" or "No One Takes Them Serious". That's the typical Dry County Cliche.....

Dude, Just because an album is released in '91, doesn't mean it's an instant success. It takes six months to year for an album and a new trend to grow. These were all new artists at the time. And that was just the start of it. I think there might have been a follow-up album or two that were pretty successful too by the way.

1996 was when Grunge started to decline but Alternative rock still continued until '99/'00. That's when Emo took over.

TwinFan · #27 07-27-2012, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

So typical, anytime someone calls anyone out around here for being an idiot, that person responds back by calling them "Ignorant" or "No One Takes Them Serious". That's the typical Dry County Cliche.....

It's because there's ways to respectfully disagree with someone, other than just going off and calling them a moron. That's just rude. That's why nobody can take you seriously.

DevilsSon · #28 07-27-2012, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

So typical, anytime someone calls anyone out around here for being an idiot, that person responds back by calling them "Ignorant" or "No One Takes Them Serious". That's the typical Dry County Cliche.....

Like pointing out that someone is an idiot for 'stating' that he comes from Transylvania, and then realising that he actually does come from Transylvania and that's not some imaginary region full of vampires. Or was it the moment you managed to read that I was on this board for 10 years, that's twice the age your mind thinks in (on the side)

To more serious things...

Quote:

Dude, Just because an album is released in '91, doesn't mean it's an instant success. It takes six months to year for an album and a new trend to grow. These were all new artists at the time. And that was just the start of it. I think there might have been a follow-up album or two that were pretty successful too by the way.

1996 was when Grunge started to decline but Alternative rock still continued until '99/'00. That's when Emo took over.

You do love to misinform, don't you? Or you have no clue.

Most of these bands have been around since the mid to late 80s. Nirvana's Bleach was fairly big already in 1989. Nevermind was an instant hit. Afterwards it all was just a rollercoaster with everything from Seattle being 'cool' and 'hip' and 'grunge'. And while these bands had follow-ups, they were never quite as big, with the exception of Soundgarden. After 1994 all started to decline. By 1996 when Pearl Jam's No Code came out, it didn't even make it to Platinum.
As a reminder, These Days did get Platinum. Get a Grip sold 8 Million copies between 1993 and 1995 alone. (topped up by another 5 million that Big Ones sold). Maybe you should take your Bon Jovi glasses off and look at what happened in reality. Not everything Jon braggs about is true, and we know it.

That all doesn't matter though. My whole point was that your 'romantic' story of the lone-Bon Jovi defeating all odds and beating all bands on their own was a little over-dramatised. They were certainly not the only band left, grunge was more of a short-lived phenomenon than anything else you make it sound, and look at the clip for I Believe - Jon looks just like Cobain. Look at the cover and the artwork of These Days - it screams GRUNGE. So, all I am actually saying is that those bands have absolutely no reason to hate Bon Jovi for 'surviving', 'selling stadiums' etc. Springsteen did the same, no one hates him. Aerosmith did the same, no one hates them. The Scorpions are far more successful than Corgan at the moment, still he is a die-hard and plays on their records. The reason (some of) these bands disdain Bon Jovi is for writing shitty annoying 'formulaic' mind-numbing rock for house-wives. That's why I got to the point of hating them too. Unfortunately for me, I also know what an awesome band they can actually be sometimes. And this just complicates the whole situation.

This might have been too long of a read for you. Apologies!

Rdkopper · #29 07-27-2012, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinFan

It's because there's ways to respectfully disagree with someone, other than just going off and calling them a moron. That's just rude. That's why nobody can take you seriously.

It's one thing if your only argument is calling someone an idiot and another if you call someone out for being idiot because their argument is idiotic. If you read my initial post in content, there was nothing factual in his reply that dismissed anything I said.

That’s what’s frustrating and what’s even more frustrating about this board.

If Billy Corgan said it’s more about the art than the trend (or whatever he said), that’s cool. But the fact that he threw the Bon Jovi name in there, makes him seem jealous. Jealous because Bon Jovi stood the test of time and The Pumpkins didn’t. That’s my opinion based on the facts that I presented.

Google Billy Corgan / Bon Jovi. This was not the first time comments were made.

Rdkopper · #30 07-27-2012, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Like pointing out that someone is an idiot for 'stating' that he comes from Transylvania, and then realising that he actually does come from Transylvania and that's not some imaginary region full of vampires. Or was it the moment you managed to read that I was on this board for 10 years, that's twice the age your mind thinks in (on the side)

To more serious things...

You do love to misinform, don't you? Or you have no clue.

Most of these bands have been around since the mid to late 80s. Nirvana's Bleach was fairly big already in 1989. Nevermind was an instant hit. Afterwards it all was just a rollercoaster with everything from Seattle being 'cool' and 'hip' and 'grunge'. And while these bands had follow-ups, they were never quite as big, with the exception of Soundgarden. After 1994 all started to decline. By 1996 when Pearl Jam's No Code came out, it didn't even make it to Platinum.
As a reminder, These Days did get Platinum. Get a Grip sold 8 Million copies between 1993 and 1995 alone. (topped up by another 5 million that Big Ones sold). Maybe you should take your Bon Jovi glasses off and look at what happened in reality. Not everything Jon braggs about is true, and we know it.

That all doesn't matter though. My whole point was that your 'romantic' story of the lone-Bon Jovi defeating all odds and beating all bands on their own was a little over-dramatised. They were certainly not the only band left, grunge was more of a short-lived phenomenon than anything else you make it sound, and look at the clip for I Believe - Jon looks just like Cobain. Look at the cover and the artwork of These Days - it screams GRUNGE. So, all I am actually saying is that those bands have absolutely no reason to hate Bon Jovi for 'surviving', 'selling stadiums' etc. Springsteen did the same, no one hates him. Aerosmith did the same, no one hates them. The Scorpions are far more successful than Corgan at the moment, still he is a die-hard and plays on their records. The reason (some of) these bands disdain Bon Jovi is for writing shitty annoying 'formulaic' mind-numbing rock for house-wives. That's why I got to the point of hating them too. Unfortunately for me, I also know what an awesome band they can actually be sometimes. And this just complicates the whole situation.

This might have been too long of a read for you. Apologies!

I'm stopping after this because you are really annoying me.

Bleach was never big in '89. No one knew Bleach even existed until Nevermind became successful. There might have been some underground fans, but that's it. Smells Like Teen Spirit lifted Nevermind to success and Bleach followed after.
QUOTE:
"The unexpected success of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" in LATE 1991 propelled Nevermind to the top of the charts at the start of 1992"

There were a ton of other bands during that time. What about STP? They had success past '96 with Tiny Music... Songs from the Vatican Gift Shop.

And Why are Aerosmith getting thrown into this? They are a 70's band. Yes they had success in the 80's but to me, they are not the typical 80's hair metal band that I'm referring to.

The Scorpions are not successful at all in America.

And the reason why Bon Jovi are hated vs. all the others you named is because they are the typical 80's hair metal band.... Which brings my argument full circle.

Get your countries right and take it from someone who lived through that period.

Billy Corgan says Bon Jovi is "formulaic"

General BJ Discussion