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Why can't Jon get rid of the stress?

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Old 12-12-2017, 03:43 PM
BJFan99 BJFan99 is offline
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Default Why can't Jon get rid of the stress?

It's now been almost five years since Richie left the band. JBJ could still sing even the harder songs - such as Always - pretty well in March '13, as is shown by this video:

https://youtu.be/H0d5Tkh4jck

However, within a few weeks' time after Richie's departure and Phil stepping up, Jon started to lose the control of his voice. The decline was subtle at first...

https://youtu.be/2TgOxMyhGSc

https://youtu.be/jxnTQaPUJV0

Then it became noticeable:

https://youtu.be/xo_QuKXPDUk

Then, just for a couple of days, Jon seemed to be getting it back again:

https://youtu.be/9h39nFY1lY0

https://youtu.be/VNtLjw1DKsM

But guess what happened then, in only a few months? Yep, Jon lost not only the rest of his voice, but also his stage presence:

https://youtu.be/L32FQUA-VJc

He seems to not have gotten either of them fully back (although the Sao Paulo show was way above par, I have to agree with Walleris there and admit that his "vocal renaissance" won't be sustainable on a regular fashion at least, whereas his stage presence actually could if he regained some of his confidence) even now that it's almost 2018:

https://youtu.be/Q7OOexWdsrU

How the departure of a band member, no matter how dear and close, can have such a long-lasting negative impact on any experienced performer's confidence and overall abilities of doing what should be routine by the time is really confusing for me. Joe Perry was out of Aerosmith for a couple of years and it didn't ruin Steven's voice (or other performing abilities for that matter).

What should Jon do to grow his confidence and get his overall happiness back? I mean, nowadays he seems exceptionally serious being interviewed as well.

Last edited by BJFan99; 12-28-2017 at 09:09 PM..
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Old 12-12-2017, 03:48 PM
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I think it’s clear Jon felt a deep sense of betrayal which is a type of trauma and people respond differently to emotional distress. You can’t judge Jon by Steven Tyler. Different people. Different situations.
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Old 12-12-2017, 03:56 PM
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First, who says that he can't?

Second, who says that his vocal decline is caused by stress only?

I feel like this myth deserves to be debunked. He already showed big signs of decline in early 2013 before Richie's departure and, as you said, the decline was subtle. He didn't lose his voice right away, he lost it gradually over the following months.

I'm not saying that stress couldn't play a part, but I refuse to believe that is what caused it. Any trained vocal coach will tell you that you should sing from your diaphragm and not straining through your throat, which is exactly what Jon has done for his entire career.

Stop looking for excuses and accept the fact that our beloved Jon did not bother to develop a sustainable singing technique and is paying the price.
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Old 12-12-2017, 04:04 PM
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I think it's a combination. Jon lost his stage presence entirely when Richie left. His voice is another issue. My problem with his his voice is, he likely could do something. Get a new vocal coach, some surgery, something. Joe Elliot did it.
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Old 12-12-2017, 04:16 PM
BJFan99 BJFan99 is offline
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As was written by JackieBlue in August after the Endicott show:

I wasn't criticizing Jon when I said he needs to get help - psychological or otherwise. What I meant was he needs to do whatever is necessary to take care of himself and find his bliss again. Since i-Heart, I've seen very little that makes me think Jon or the band are enjoying anything about it anymore. And I've seen nothing since the release of THINFS, that convinces me.

When the THINFS video was released, a few people said the band looked happy and cohesive. The same people comment, now, about how everybody's happy with the status quo and Jon and the band seem to be enjoying themselves. I honestly wish that some of you would tell me, specifically, what makes you believe that; because, hand to God, I just can't see it.

Smiles look forced because the joy never seems to reach their eyes. Jon says the right words; but there's no conviction. He's visably anxious in group interviews when anybody but him has the mic. It's like he's holding his breath, hoping they won't say the wrong thing.

On stage, stress is evident in Jon's countenance, in his rigid posture, and in the lack of mobility. It's not just that he doesn't move away from the mic; what concerns me is the death-grip he has on it. He looks like he's literally hanging on by a thread.

I'm sorry; but I don't see a man who's doing what he enjoys at all. What I see is somebody with dogged determination to push through, come hell or high water; not because he wants to, but because, for whatever reason, he feels like he has to.

I've posted this video before because it's one of my favorites. I loved the video of the fan club tribute in Milan, too, where I think Jon may have been at his most genuine in 2013 but, even then, he seemed overwhelmed by bittersweet emotions.

This one is the last time I can remember seeing Jon truly enjoying himself on stage and even then it lasted a very short time. But for those few minutes, Jon looked like he was totally caught up in the pure joy of entertaining and having fun with all of it.

https://youtu.be/RXw3EFubx9g

That's the Jon I want to see again. I can live with imperfect performances. I just want to see him and the band get their joy back.

I agree with every word above.
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Old 12-12-2017, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danfan View Post
I think it's a combination. Jon lost his stage presence entirely when Richie left. His voice is another issue. My problem with his his voice is, he likely could do something. Get a new vocal coach, some surgery, something. Joe Elliot did it.
To be honest his stage presence was gone even during the shows Richie played in 2013. Something happened between 2011 and 2013 with his stage presence that has nothing do with Richie (not that it helped that his best bro left the way he did though).
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Old 12-12-2017, 07:26 PM
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I doubt Jon and Richie were ever "best bro's" to be honest. Certainly not for many years...
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Old 12-12-2017, 07:56 PM
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No but you don't have to be best bros to be torn up by your partner leaving suddenly. THAT BEING SAID I don't buy that Richie's leaving had much to do with Jon's voice declining. It wasn't in great shape for the WAN promo shows and the ones leading up to Richie leaving. It probably contributed but Jon would have lost his range regardless I think.
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DryCounty View Post
To be honest his stage presence was gone even during the shows Richie played in 2013. Something happened between 2011 and 2013 with his stage presence that has nothing do with Richie (not that it helped that his best bro left the way he did though).
As I've said before, I noticed it as far back as i-Heart with both Jon and Richie. Something has been "off" between them for at least that long. And if it was noticeable in their stage presence and on-stage chemistry, I can only believe that off-stage it was even worse.

Since it was noticeable in both of them, and without knowing what the "something" was, I don't know how we can know for sure that it had nothing to do with Richie, or that it wasn't part of the reason why Richie left. It's possible that it even had something to do with why he left the way that he did.

The fact that they've both clearly been off their game since then leads me to believe that "it", whatever "it" was, may be the common denominator in the whole shebang.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:24 PM
jovifan93 jovifan93 is offline
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Originally Posted by Walleris View Post
First, who says that he can't?

Second, who says that his vocal decline is caused by stress only?

I feel like this myth deserves to be debunked. He already showed big signs of decline in early 2013 before Richie's departure and, as you said, the decline was subtle. He didn't lose his voice right away, he lost it gradually over the following months.

I'm not saying that stress couldn't play a part, but I refuse to believe that is what caused it. Any trained vocal coach will tell you that you should sing from your diaphragm and not straining through your throat, which is exactly what Jon has done for his entire career.

Stop looking for excuses and accept the fact that our beloved Jon did not bother to develop a sustainable singing technique and is paying the price.
Not saying that you're wrong, but do you have any proof for that theory? In the 80s and at least early 90s, he was definitely singing through his throat, hence the rasp and everything. But from the 2000s onwards, I think he actually worked out a technique that *is* (or was) sustainable, hence the different sound (probably even the more nasal one)...

How and why that suddenly went downhill during 2013, I don't know. But from what I've learned the last years about Jon being introverted and stuff, I can imagine (like Jackie) that something happened that made his world collapse a bit and lose his confidence. And then things started to go downhill, which lead to some osrt of a downward-spiral...

Last edited by jovifan93; 12-12-2017 at 09:33 PM..
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