Bon Jovi and Cinderella

Positive and Negative doesn't determine if a song is dark or not. They are additional contributing factors but the mood of the song within the production determines that, along with the lyrics.

Just because Jon is saying "Keep The Faith" doesn't mean that it's not dark. There are some very dark lyrics associated with KTF however it's not a dark song because of the mood. If Jon changed the mood, this song could have been very dark. Do you know the lyrics?

I have suffered for my anger
There are wars that can't be won
Father father please believe me
I am laying down my guns
I am broken like an arrow
Forgive me, Forgive your wayward son

Dry County could be another one.

To say that the Black album is darker than KTF without any real analysis, is just an opinionated statement.

The context it was used in in this post made it seem like it was obvious, night and day.

Saying The Black album was more suited for grunge because it was darker than KTF is not a fact just a bad opinion.

The truth is, there was a HUGE difference in the music scene between 1991 and 1992. The 80’s style was still going on in 1991 however starting to fade. Grunge was starting to take over in 1991 but did take over fully until late 1992. ’91 to ’92 was the transition.
Let’s not forget that Metallic was never an 80’s hair metal band to begin with either. They were the real deal.

But the Black album sold 16M. Load and Reload only sold 5M and 4M so there was a slight decline in popularity even for them. Those times did have an impact on Metallica as well.

To be fair:
Black album is a great album.
Load and Reload aren't great albums. They're just decent.

Shouldn't this thread be titled "Bon Jovi and Metallica?"

Cinderella and Bon Jovi was my first real concert at the infamous Big Mac Arena (McNichols Arena in Denver, CO.. the site of the filming of Def Leppard's Live In the Round In Your Face concert film and the Pour Some Sugar On Me/Armageddon It videos.) It's been torn down for some time now.

I loved Cinderella and wished them even bigger success than they had. In retrospect though.. I'm not sure what they could have done to adapt to the changing music climate over the years. They were just unfairly swept up with the Hair Band tide even though they hit it big just prior to the flood of crap that came at the end of the decade.

I read where Keifer said that when they submitted a video to MTV for their Heartbreak Station album, they were told flat out, "Your genre is over." It was the beginning of the end for MTV, too -- by force-feeding us grunge as the new cool, it began its suicidal downward spiral of force-feeding style over substance (complete with Madonna as their patron saint).

And you're absolutely right about "the flood of crap that came at the end of the decade." The upside of Slippery's success was that it made life easier for real hard rock and metal bands (such as Metallica!). The downside was that all the other record labels rushed out to sign anybody with long hair, a nice face, and a guitar!

Absolutely. Sadly, I saw Bon Jovi in 1987 and got Keel as an opening act. I didn't see Cinderella until about 15 years later opening for Poison. They blew me away. What a great live band.

I saw them last year at this joint that holds about 2,000 people, and the place was packed. They put on a great show. They were VERY unfairly swept under the rug due to their look. Much more of a blues rock band than anything else. And I'm sorry, but I'll put Night Songs as a single up against anything in the 80's.

Not true.

I always believed Jon when he said they didn't follow fads. Then Lost Highway came out, and the rest is history.

Right. I didn't. I don't.

About Cinderella. I think they suffered from hair metal labeling. They just were not poppy enough but more bluesy and down to earth. Ok, they did choose to appear as one of them oh so loved hairy acts, but musically, they were quite different.

Though I was was only partial to Cinderella, I am forever in their debt for one thing -- helping me make my big breakthrough in music theory!

I was trying to unravel the mystery of musical modes on guitar. I would record the chord progressions and play the modal scales over them, but I just wasn't getting it. Then one morning when I was on the verge of giving up, I heard Somebody Save Me on the radio, and I felt struck by lightning: I slammed down my orange juice, jumped up and yelled, "That's a one-flat sixth progression!"

Is this a case of sarcasm or irony again?

I was going to ask if you were sure about it being their sophomore album, since Long Cold Winter's videos were in heavy rotation, but then saw you made a correction. That I can believe! Shelter Me got an MTV Exclusive status, but didn't go anywhere, though Heartbreak Station did well on Dial MTV. The More Things Change was barely shown compared to their previous releases. You could definitely see the tide changing.

One of the best shows I've seen happens to be Cinderella on the Long Cold Winter tour. Like everyone else has said... they were more of a hard rock blues band than a hair band. You really had to see them live to "get it." Now that I think about it, they should have ridden the long term alongside the Black Crowes rather than getting tossed out.