Bon Jovi's biggest crime?

Firstly, congratulations this is a very nice topic.

I voted for the guitar solos (last vote).. I really want to see Richie pwn his guitar till his fingers bleed (not literally). However, it was hard to decide; I do believe they overlook These Days way too much. And, yes they play bad name, its my life, livin on a prayer, bad medicine, etc too much.. But hey; I think guitar solos are way needed.

As for TLFR.. I don't think that was too bad. It wasn't brilliant songs, but it wasn't necessarily a crime; i don't think it damaged their reputation at all.

Brilliant post BP, hit the nail on the head. I've said it before and I'll say it again TLFR was a decent album. Any of those tracks would have made decent b-sides, it just seems that the fan base couldn't accept them as a full album. Who that says more about I don't know!!!

As for the set-lists, BP is 100% right again. I went to Lansdowne Road with two casual fans in 2003. They went wild for all the hits, when BJ played Diamond Ring I nearly peed my pants but their exact words were "What is this shit?". The band are going to see that from the stage coz it wasn't just them.

I would love to hear more of These Days live but I dunno how many of the songs would go over well with the casual fans.

I'm not too bothered bout the sound now as I think they have always had a pop element to their music.

I think Becky (hope your wrist is better) is also right about the travesty that was One Wild Night. Words cant sum up how awful a "live" album that was.

The problem is intensity. The band, and especially Jon are spread too thinly and they are too well settled in their collective comfort zone, to give that performance that we all really want to see and know that they are capable of.

Have to say I agree 100% with BP, awesome post. It does nag at me though that Richie is being restricted (well I think so) in his solo's. From the rock playing of Slippery and New Jersey to the beautiful intricate playing on These Days and then the masterclass on most of the Keep The Faith album. Crush I thought was great for his guitar work, but Bounce was short on the solo side and Have A Nice Day is he weakest work yet, the only good solo's being Last Man Standing, Have A Nice Day and Unbreakble. When they said HAND was gonna be a full rock album I was happy as hell then I get it and Wildflower, Welcome To Wherever You Are, Complicated, Novocaine, Who Says You Can't Go Home (though I love that song) to an extent are nothing what I would consider rock. Well I can only hope next time round they really go for it and let Richie have longer spots and more intense playing overall.

This Left Feels Right come on if people think thats the worse thing they've done wise up. It was creative as hell although not to everybodys liking, I thought it was pretty good and at least it wasn't another out and out greatest hits.

Leaving out the songs of the These Days albums in their sets is annoying but they throw in These Days now and again just hope I catch it next time around, so its not that big a crime.

As for the same songs on the setlists over and over I can understand this but I cannot believe they leave out Dry County and play Shout or I'll Sleep When I'm dead, they also prolong Bad Medicine too much. Seems like there is a hell of a lot of casual Jovi fans around, on the Bounce tour when they played the songs of Bounce most of the crowd didn't know the words or even the chorus. Still they got a great reception at the end.

My main thing about Jovi is for them to be more creative, start a trend, do something completely different, let Richie shine as we know he is capable of and stop worrying about staying true to fans or having a radio friendly single. Def Leppard done this and came up with one of the best albums ever made in my opinion.....Slang.

Abso-****ing-lutely.

I actually went with setlist choices. It was between that and TLFR. I went with setlist for one simple reason - It's the mistake they keep making.

TLFR was a disaster, but it was a one time thing, and it's over with. The setlist however, is something that every night they continue to screw up. They leave some of their best tunes off of it, leave the best songs off the new album off of it, and continue to play songs that most people are sick of hearing live (Sleep When I'm Dead).

very very hard but tlr is still worse than anything and taking it on the seltist now is the worst

I agree. Imo they're more consequences of the same "crime".

This is where I started finding your post pretty arrogant.
I appreciate TLFR for what it is, a one off experience, and they were right trying, though the result is way below my expectations.
I wouldn't rate it creative. I can't consider covering a song as creative as, well, creating one. Just the fact that they didn't have to write lyrics, ie... Most of the songs in there are just slowed down, and played in another mood. It's not what I call creation, and it's not musically as challenging as the band tried to sell it, it's messing around and probably having fun.
My friends and I like to play Highway To Hell country style, everything in it sounds different than the original yet I can't consider having created anything. We just changed, turned things around. It was fun, but certainly not creative. Now from a professional band to do a whole record like that is commercially ballsy, but artistically lazy.

I think it reached the amount of cheer and admiration some gave it. I mean some people did call it a masterpiece...

That's very true, but...

Do you really think you're above anyone else here? You're able to consider the greater scheme when too many of us are blinded... How Sebish

I think you're missing something too, imo.
The lack of intensity, soul, spirit, whatever you want to call it, is just a symptom.
The sickness is their lazyness, which I think is more or less inconscious, due to the fact that they don't feel challenged. They started with the challenge of becoming huge, they succeeded. Then they've had to survive the grunge era, they succeeded. All this with great albums, songs and tours. Then what? What is the challenge?
There is no music genre that really dominates the world, their fan base is large enough for them to sell millions and have a sold out tour. They don't feel the need to prove anything or to put any special effort in their work (studio and stage). Everything they've done since the challenge has faded is extremely basic. The music: shorter songs, hardly any real guitar solos anymore, same effects rehashed over and over again... the lyrics: Same subjects over and over again, more and more generic stuff... the shows : no pyro anymore, safe setlists, going through the motions...
All because they don't feel the need to give in addition to just sell. They need to be challenged and to have something to prove.

It wouldn't solve the problem, but would somehow be a sign that the problem is at least partly solved. It would mean they're not playing it as safe as they are now. If both Crush and Bounce, and even TLFR, can get at least one song in there, These Days certainly deserves on as well. Same for the first two albums.

Well no, as I said , that is just the symptom. Imo the crime is not finding anything worth fighting, or rather working (they're professionals after all), for. They do not feel challenged and take their success for granted, as if the great albums they've released in the past granted them a forever successful career. They can't be more wrong than that. I mean, Jon is actually blaming people for sitting down during BJ shows. He's not even considering one minute the band that could be, if not boring, not as exciting as they were/can be.

I didn't vote on that poll. I don't agree with any of the propositions being a "crime". If "crime" there is, it's the incapacity of renewing their passion and the very simple, but so necessary, sheer love of music.


Ponrauil

Setlist choices

This is so true, I totally agree on this. May I copy this and send it to Tico?

I guess you can
But why Tico?

Ponrauil