John Shanks

Richie was there for the entire process of HAND, LH and The Circle. What makes people so sure he was underutilized? He was involved and people act like he was locked out of the room.

Because most probably he was being pushed out, slowly but surely; that must have had to do with him not being reliable because of his personal problems and substance abuse. When the guy finally overcame his demons, though, he actually noticed how much everything had changed in the meantime, too...

Jon insisted he was blindsided by Richie's leaving and "there was no fight." While I don't take Jon's words as Holy Bible, it doesn't have to be necessarily a lie. Lack of *proper* communication happened between them before and almost broke the band. Anyway, men aren't very good at expressing their feelings and emotions in general. Guess the history repeats itself.

Richie was kicked out of the band. That said, I'm sure Shanks' presence convinced Jon he could go on without him. I'm not so sure Richie's return would have been blocked in say, 2002...

Yes! I've said this right from their first appearance! Also their backing vocals are really strong and complementary to Jon's voice.

Yes, but being underutilized and being locked out of the room are two entirely different things. Richie could be "in the room" all day long; but the question would be how much his input was valued and incorporated vs how much was over-ridden or done while he wasn't there. It's not whether he was involved or not, but to what degree.

I see the change in dynamics most noticeably on stage whereas others seem to notice differences in the studio. I admittedly didn't follow the band until WSYCGH and the CMT Crossroads with Sugarland; and I haven't watched a lot of the shows from KTF through HAND. There are a few, like when somebody posts a particularly good highlight; but for the most part I watch the more recent stuff (like as far back as LH), or the shows from NJ and before. I'm not sure when the change started and I'm sure it was a gradual thing; but when you compare the later shows with the pre-KTF shows, the whole band's participation, not just Richie's, is drastically reduced. The shows became much more Jon-centric than they were back in the day.

It's just a guess, but I wonder if that isn't a reflection of what may have happened, over the course of time, with the writing and in the studio, as well.

Are y'all talking about the band that backed him here?

https://youtu.be/jzPzv_briDo

I assumed that was a one-off band, not a regular thing; but if is the group, I agree 100 %. They were amazing!! Their backing vocals on "Hit the Road" alone were worth the price of admission!

(If you're talking about another band, just pretend like I didn't say anything...)

OT but I've not heard either of those stories before. AFAIK it's common knowlegde that One was based on what was supposed to be the guitar solo to another song (Acrobat maybe?) and BD was 100% an Edge riff that kickstarted the song for the rest of them.

Fixed that for ya!

While I don't disagree, at all, that Richie's "unreliability" could have had to do with the shift in their personal and professional dynamics, it could have worked the other way, too. Which came first - the chicken or the egg? Even before Richie's life headed south, he was already unhappy with the direction Jon was taking the band and there was already tension between them, if Bandiera can be believed.

Could reliability have been an issue prior to that? Absolutely. But questioning his worth to the band could just as easily have contributed to the increase in substance abuse and his unreliability, especially when everything else started happening. Not saying that's what happened, necessarily, but I believe that scenario is just as realistic as the other way around, given how much his ego and sense of self-worth seems to be tied to being a musician and a contributing factor to Bon Jovi's success.

True. While Richie's drinking problems are a fact, the "why?" question clearly has many answers. I can totally picture him drinking and some sort of avoiding Jon/his duties in the band because of being a fifth wheel to Jon and his then best buddy in the studio...
And I'm tired of talking about Richie's ego because man, let's face it, without him the classic sound of BJ wouldn't be there. It'd be a totally different band! So him being one of the founding fathers and undeniably the tight songwriting team with Jon, he worked his ass off to be where he is now. Jon actually said that what distinguished Richie from all other guitar players was talent and passion. No doubt he gave all he could give to this little project called Bon Jovi and no wonder he got unhappy with the way his child grew up sorta ignoring/belittling his parent.
There are no winners and losers here. The "sh*t didn't hit the fan" in 2013, Jon. It was much, much earlier. Shanks was a contributing factor, too. Sorry, can't take to the guy at all and believe me, I've tried.

I think Richie is involved enough up to and including the Circle. But the combination of Richie with Shanks production, is somehow not very complimenting.



In particular in the circle - it s not asatisfying output. Dnt know..