Did John Shanks ruin Bon Jovi?

https://youtu.be/jZ3WYwHSvI4 Here Shanks is on stage 12 years ago... Still wearing a beanie.

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12 years ago.....Christ.

Shanks loves that goatee beard too.

So much more power in Jon's voice back then - even if he was a bit flat on some parts.

Also, Richie looks cool as ****!


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He's put a bit of mascara on but he was pretty heavy in 05... Steroids? Or maybe just lots of cookies.

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Haha. Who knows.

Still crazy that's 12yrs ago!!


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Do you know this for a fact or it just an assumption? Not that I doubt you or anything, it would certainly not suprise me if he has played some ryhtms from HAND - WAN but unless you have some direct quotes or facts the general knowledge is that he played on Burning Bridges and THINFS. Possibly even WAN as we all know Richie had limited interest in and did pretty much only play power chords/solos on all the songs live handling the melodys to Bobby.

But on at least HAND and LH it seems very much like Richie to me guitar wise and the way he recreated the parts live differs very much from the way he recreated the parts from WAN which makes me doubt that Shanks were anything more than a writer/producer for those records.

I would have to go digging but he's said in interviews he did guitar work on the albums too. That's not to say he did it in lieu of Richie playing, a lot of times they were working together. That being said, Dan Huff has said he did some guitar playing on the songs he produced as well so it's always been in the spirit of collaboration. As opposed to WAN when you can clearly hear what's Richie and whats Shanks. The arpeggio'd parts in the chorus of I'm With You are with out a doubt Shanks.

I think the simple fact is that, like all bands, they have a peak period in which everything they make turns to gold. Bon Jovi are no different. We should be thankful that a, the original members stayed together as long as they did, and b, they're still making music in some capacity. Music that I'd damn sure listen to over 99% of modern rock.

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I guess the frustration comes from (and this is where Bon Jovi case is a bit different) is that the drop off was a conscious decision to change genres and chase fads. In the 90s they could do no wrong and in the eyes of many had found a golden formula with These Days; yet opted to do something much more simple and aim for the masses.

I don't condemn Jon for doing that that (as the band would be nowhere near as big as it has been for the past 17 years if he didn't change things), but the fact that this change was done in purpose and nearly overnight is what perhaps is the most upsetting. It's almost as if he chose to not be as good (album-wise) to be better commercially. Whereas most bands decline more gradually and not by choice.

To play devil's advocate, if the album didn't do great, or even good, in their markets they wanted, These Days was hardly a golden formula. For all we know Crush came from an honest place from them. Sometimes I wonder what it would have sounded like pre-It's My Life. It's My Life was written to evoke past big singles, Thank you for Loving me was clearly written to sound like other big ballads, to the point of re-using lyrics.

Never mind, the more I think I about it Crush was always intended as a comeback record. You don't just aim to get back your old producer from the days you were red hot and call it a continuation.

It seems to me that many fans see These Days (or KTF or NJ or SWW - whatever) as the pinnacle of Bon Jovi artistry and creativity and think everything that followed it has been substandard by comparison.

I wonder if These Days isn't, instead, the 'red-headed, left-handed, step-child' among Jovi's 'babies'. Perhaps the album stands out, not because it's better, necessarily, but because it's different. TLFR is different from their other albums, too; it just wasn't as well-liked.

All the other albums seem to be quite similar to me. The other possible exception would be LH, which also gained a strong reaction from fans. Some love it, some hate it - because it veers from the band's formula.

Granted, this comes from someone who doesn't overanalyze music. (Lyrics, yes; but not music.) I admit that I have trouble understanding the arbitrary lines people draw to define 'genre' (or in Jovi's case, 'sub-genre') and how they determine if music is 'good' or not. But I don't see where Bon Jovi have strayed too far from where they started, especially in their studio recordings. The optimistic, upbeat, melodic-rock or pop sound has been consistent throughout their history. That thread is there even on TD, TLFR, and LH. They have always been a 'commercial' band. Isn't that why they brought in Desmond, as well as Max Martin?

They have always chased hits and incorporated elements of what they liked from what was popular at the time. They have always tried to create music that appealed to the masses, but did so within their own style and sound. As you say, if they hadn't they probably wouldn't have achieved the success they did.

I don't see it as a decline, as much as a continuation of what they've always been - a good rock band that is still pumping out music they like that they also hope will appeal to fans, old and new.

Live, IMO, is a completely different animal. I can definitely see where the earlier shows had much more energy and hard-rocking drive. If I'm going to watch shows on YT, I prefer the excitement of the older shows, not only for the extended guitar solos and more involvement from the band, but because they all seemed much more engaged.

But recording-wise, I just don't see where much has changed, significantly, over the years. Again, I have to wonder if what fans see as a decline isn't simply a difference in what the band wants to release vs. what the fans are looking for from them. As some have pointed out, Shanks can do other stuff - he's done it with other bands - so this must be where Jon and the band want to go.

Perhaps it isn't a matter of laziness, indifference, or selling out. Maybe the music is what Bon Jovi wants to release, because it says what they want to say in the way they want to say it. They aren't in the same place they were when they wrote and recorded TD. They're expressing something different now. And maybe that just isn't what some of the fans expect or want to hear from them.