getting called out over Bon Jovi

I feel a bit like an elementary school girl being "called out" on the playground by the class bully here but I'm feeling a bit argumentative today so........ For those of you who haven't read Seb's Holland review, I'm Rainsong one of the two Americans he mentioned, or I should say slagged off, in his review as being "backstagers".

First and foremost I have to say that my understanding of this term is general, meaning that Seb has never directly explained to me his definition of a "backstager". Hmm, wonder why???? From my understanding it essentially means to him that I'm a blind faith follower of Bon Jovi, that no matter what they do, I'll say i like it and support it.

To a certain extent he's right. I'm a Bon jovi fan, have been one for twenty three years, I am at this point pre-disposed to "like" what the band puts out. Why shouldn't I? this is "my" band, the band I connect with, the band I'm willing to pack my bags and fly 2500 miles to see (I'm doing just that in July when i go to Philly for the stadium show). The reason I'm a fan of this band is because I like their music, if I didn't or I thought that all the post 2000 material was "weak" and not worthy of BJ putting their name on it, I'd stop going, and I would stop buying BJ music. I haven't done either so.... if this makes me a "backstager" then well I guess I am one.

The funny thing is Seb and I have never had a direct in depth conversation on Bon Jovi anything. As i recall from back when he was on the boards daily we did some sparring over certain aspects of Bon jovi material, mostly over his constant slagging off of Jon personally, which i never have understood really, meaning that Seb has never said to me directly what it is about Jon that he dislikes so much so I had to guess at what was behind it and all I could ever come up with is that he wants so badly to be Jon or to have Jon's success in life that in a weird sort of reverse phsycology his slagging him off about EVERYTHING is his way of showing it.

As for the new "the American tour leg sucked theme" that seems to be running through reviews now that the band pulled out DC and TD in Europe (which by the way is the place they usually play the TD songs anyway, it's a fact us Americans have learned to live with) my response is BULLSHIT!!!
A friend of mine emailed me a little youtube gem from Madison Square Garden this morning of THR live where the entire room is on their feet singing and raising their hands, that would be oh 18,000 to 20,000 people as I recall MSG"s concert capacity. there was no "dead" audience there so either all of them are "clueless idiots" (another of Seb's terms I believe) or that was one hell of a good BJ show going on . Personally, since I had friends there who told me so I'm going with the latter.

I went to six shows on the Arena tour in five cities. I saw three excellent/great shows, one good/ solid show, one paint by the numbers we're tired lets just do this show, and one absolutely magical show. Were the setlists everything i ever dreamed of??? Nope, but i got to see and hear some more rare stuff at a few of them. Hell it took me five shows before I got to see Welcome. I got BOB, NSG, LIS, ITA (it wasn't a staple in the set early in the tour) all songs I had't seen live in years. the band played great they sound really good and Jon is in the best voice I have heard from him in several years. We got a great tour period. As I said in the reviews post I'm as estatic as any diehard to see DC getting pulled off the shelf, I hope like hell that one makes it back across the pond as well as TD STBI and HG. but you know what?? If I go to Philly and I get none of those but the show I see is played well, Jon is in good voice and the set they do give us there is well done I'll say that it was worth what it cost me to go.

Honestly, I'd just ignore it. He seems to have the mentality, and some others around these parts do too, that if you disagree with them/him, then you are an outsider and you don't belong.

I really don't care if I get called a ****gasp**** backstager. I'm not going to apologize for liking what the band does. I've seen the good, bad, and the ugly with this band over 20 years. Yes, I like TLFR, I love the jazz and blues influences but I also like that kind of music and it's what I listen to when I'm not listening to rock.

I admire and respect the band as musicians and human beings. I wouldn't spend the amount of money I do traveling to see shows if I didn't enjoy the shows. I also have a good friend that has worked on the last three tours. He works for a lot of bands and artists but Bon Jovi is the ONLY band that he actually request to be put on tour with. He says they are the best band he's every worked for and that they treat the crew like people (call them by name, etc). So, yea, I like hearing that the guys aren't a big bunch of spoiled, big headed jerks.

Do I think criticizing the band is a bad thing, NO, absolutely not. I think some criticism is deserved but sometimes it seems like the crticizing is for the sake of critizing. Those of us that dare say something good then our opinions are immediately dismissed as stupid and clueless and we are blind followers. Again, if that is the way I'm looked upon then so be it.

deb

Oh i know the mentality of it and usually I do let it go, let him have his fun and ignore it. as I said in the beginning of the post I was feeling a bit argumentative today or I probably wouldn't have bothered to post.

The thing I find most irritating about his review is his attitude that all americans that went to those 56 sold out arena shows are clueless idiots whoknow nothing. Were alot of those audiences casual fans who either go to hear their favorite hits or new fans that liked a song on the new record??? Yeah they were, but that is the case wherever in the world you go. i'm not a casual fan, i've been to european stadium shows, I see the same thing there as here i the US. A small percentage of diehards, a whole bunch of I like BJ live, it's a great time fans, and another percentage of casual I like that song or these few songs type of fans. My point is they are no more clued in or clueless than the fans in the States. Td doesn't get played here because it never got any airplay over here at all. None other than a diehard would even know a TD song if it bit them in the ass. I'm betting that there were plenty of fans at the Show in Europe who took a pee break during TD or Garageland because the didn't know the songs.

The thing about Seb and them is they call me a backstager, which they consider to be the most useless kind of fan, but from where I sit they are just the same only in reverse. They are so hell bent on being above it all and critiquing everything to nth degree so as not to appear backstagish that they have have as we say in America tarred themselves with the same brush.

the slagging off of Jon personally has reached the heights of idiocy in my opinion. I have had quite a few occasions over the years to meet and talk to the man, he has never been anything but down to earth, real and for the most part very nice. This is a guy that has every reason in the world to be a grade "A" asshole, arrogant jerk but the truth is he just isn't. and I'm sorry but you can't call a guy that has taken his band and his own career through twenty three years of the very fickle music business and come out still filling arenas and stadiums around the world and selling roughly five millions albums an outing a stupid mother****er. The dude is worth upwards of 250 million dollars he's been doing somethiung right for the last twenty years or so, because we all know he didn't start out with any kind of money.

Maybe I am too forgiving of Jon and the band, maybe i am willing to give them the benifit of the doubt more often than not, but for me i think they have earned that generosity. This band has given me endless and countless hours of pleasure and fun over the years, has hooked me up with some very cool people I now get to call friends and has given me memories that I cherish now and will for the rest of my life. So if cutting them a break now and again when I personally feel that they have maybe made a misstep is being backstagish then I'm all good with that.

Don't feel bad for loving Bon Jovi or being too 'forgiving' of them, I'm the same way. They have not really disapointed me yet. Except for a few not-so-great songs here and there. Not too many of my favorite bands could get away with a country song and still be one of my favorites. I hate country like you wouldn't believe.

BTW TLFR is my least favorite album, but I don't think it's a complete waste like some say.

Good for you for standing up for yourself...but the best part is, you DON'T have to explain yourself!

You have every right to be the kind of fan you want to be - the slagging from others is funny at times, but the personal attacks are rude and unnecessary.

Keep on with your comfort level, and give a big middle finger to anyone who gives you shit.

If he even bothers at all I can imagine Seb having a good laugh reading this.

ohh... cool, he is populair.. agian a whole topic about Seb

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha. lmfao.
That nearly killed me.

Ok, you may continue now.

What happened to Seb, why doesnt he post here anymore? As much as he irritated me, at least he stirred debate(and other things)!!!!