has jon sold out doing idol

I would completely disagree with you, quote every sentence you wrote and prove you wrong...only i've sort of done it a zillion times before to not bother anymore. I can only say that I have listened to EVERYTHING from Grandfunk Railroad to Steppenwolf to Iron Butterfly to Deep Purple to Led Zeppelin to Van Halen to Scorpions to Alice Cooper and Ozzy and Motley Crue and Poison and Skid Row and Black Label Society and Jet. And YES, Bon Jovi was very much a hard rock act(Born To Be My Baby and Livin' on A Prayer are their poppiest songs but then KISS sang I was made for Lovin' you baby, Guns n Roses played Patience, Skid Row played I remember you which are exactly in the same league...it was the "cornyness" of the 80s ) until CRUSH.

When people talk about selling out, they never contradict the fact that bon jovi has ALWAYS been a commercial rock band. In the end they are not an underground band, they have sold 100 zillion records so they must be commercial. However, they could have done their marketinf differently.

They have SOLD OUT big time with the QVC thingie and even Jon admits it (read Lonn Friend's "Life on Planet Rock") but even then, the same people were defending the band for reaching to new audiences...well, call it however you like, it was selling out in a way in which some die-hards did not like it. A different example, I personally enjoyed seeing some of the people at Idol performing the songs, that doesn't mean I don't admit it was SELLING OUT big time.

Metallica are also constantly accused of selling out since "they did their first video, since they hired Bon Jovi's producer, they hired Bon Jovi's video director, they play Bon Jovi-like ballads..."...all of that was true, but the BLACK ALBUM came out which is one of ROCK's masterpieces and it came about only because the sold out. Have they done anything wrong? Maybe...a lot of die-hards hated it but they gained a HUGE new audience. This is what Bon Jovi is doing as well, since they exist, in some way or the other. People like me, who are fans because of the rock "n" roll will move on, the old groupies will stay, and the Idol crowd will join...it's not the end of the world.

One more thing though, nobody says that Metallica is a pop band although even they themselves agree they did sell out, so please, don't mix genre with being commercial. there are even doom metal bands who are more commercial than britney spears, in their own way...

could you give me the link to that, couldn't really find it.

As of Motley Crue, that's not the best example you can give as they are the definition of selling out. AGAIN, don't mix genre with commercialism. Bon Jovi turned from rock to pop to teen pop to country. That's a way of selling out. Motley Crue do it (Nikki Sixx to a smaller extent, I agree) with stupid reality shows, home made porn movies, or what was that VH 1 show called, re making Vince Neil? where he went everyday to the gym, got a gay hairdo and then played a crappy Desmond Child ballad...PUKE. That WAS SELLING OUT. Ever since I lost all my respect for that man. Carnival of Sins might have been a good tour, it might have ROCKED, but if Motley Crue is not all about cheesy corny selling out, I don't know.

bon jovi is a limited company

so is u2

so is bryan adams

so is metallica

so is any band that has a clue about financial dealings INCLUDING motley crue and lets be reasonable, bon jovi are still selling out stadiums. last time crue played here they played to a half full 10,000 seat arena.

bon jovi being "pop" and not being pigeonholed with the other cock rock bands has worked in their favour over the years. name me one band that was around back then in the same vein as bon jovi who are still shifting the kind of units and filling as many seats bon jovi are and i'll paypal you a tenner.

But, no body here is saying that Jon is a saint as his personal life has nothing to do with the topic of "selling out".

deb

yeah i'm failing to see what jon banging the gong around 20 years ago has to do with appearing on a cheesy talent show.

methinks agentsquirrel shouldn't be sharing whatever she's smoking with the rest of dc.

And someone please tell me how doing cheesy reality tv, Vince Neil, doing an Idol like summer show for a rock singer for a "new" band made up of cast off former 80's bands, Tommy Lee, a show I enjoyed by the way, and going on tour strictly for a big cash infusion Motley Crue, isn't selling out??????

Nikki personally hasn't done any of those things but he runs MC, and owns the name I believe which kind of puts him in the same position as Jon, too bad he isn't as good a business guy as Jon is.

I don't recall anyone here saying they thought Jon was a saint, and I don't get what his personal life 15-20 years ago has to do with them selling out professionally.

Bon jovi has always been a band whose desire was to play and have it's music heard by as many people as they could get to, that isn't any different now than it was in 86, they just go about it differently now.

you know what ever the rights and wrongs, one thing you do have to remember, the band sold loads of tickets in a very short time but a quick look at ebay and the ticket traders tells u that it wasnt the fans who bought them up it was touts. so based on that maybe motley crue didnt fill the arena but at least it was the fans who bought the tickets not the touts. the same thing happend the other year with U2, u couldnt get a ticket for love nor money because the touts had bagged them all within minutes of them going on sale and on the day there where guys all over hassling people to buy tickets. so don't base numbers on ticket sales, there are several buisness' on Ebay offering 4,6 or 8 tickets to the O2 show. there are also several package companies offering tickets with hotel etc they've got hundreds of seats in the bag. too be honest i think its about time ebay got tough with some of them but thats the way the world works now. and in a way its bad for the fans who can't afford to pay sometimes 10 times the cover price of a ticket.

By the way, the manchester arena was full when crue played there, and if you really want to know what i smoke its... Old Holborne (really makes the colours fly mannnn......)

are you suggesting that a band who can sell out 60,000 seater stadiums all over europe wouldn't have sold the o2 arena out in no time if touts weren't involved?

oh for goodness sake the evidence is all over Ebay, touts always jump in and buy up the tickets. i'd say out of every ten tickets sold on opening day the touts get about six of them. if thats not the case how come u see them wandering around outside gigs offering tickets from bundles of them in their hands. someone has bought them in batches. i know ticketmaster restrict u to a max of six (i think) so in reality u only need ten people to buy six tickets each to sell on but thats sixty tickets gone already. times that by the number of guys these touts have working for them and it does add up to about 20% of tickets going that way. there was about six on Ebay the day the tickets went on sale offering pairs and groups of four. plus the tickets where on sale at 9.15, so they bought them and bang!! shoved them straight on to Ebay and charged the real fans 10 fold the cover price if not more. a friend of mine was offered george micheal tickets for over £800, metallicas wembley show is sold out but the touts are offering stupid prices on the tickets still. so they must have jumped in there and bought up a good five thousand or so spread out between the various touts up and down the country. intriguing thing is, the guys with the tickets going in to the gig are always the same guys selling dodgy t-shirts etc on the way out. its big buisness. i even know one of them, he usually sells cheap booze and cigs on the edge of a market in manchester but he's always there when there's a gig with his tickets and T-shirts. he reckons he makes a fortune and going off his car etc and the amount of gold he wears he does.

i'm really not getting where you're going with this

k so the touts bought tickets, no one is denying this.

that means they're confident they can sell over half of the seats in that stadium at an inflated price....

i still don't see what relevance this has to anything in this thread...