Hypothetically - if Richie was going to come back....

Yes. For me always was this. It would be totally different if he had wait for the final of the tour or hadn't wait for it to begin. But leave in the middle of the tour, and still not even calling himself for Jon and the others?? C'mon man...

If there was anyone back then that should have been remembered about the last 30 years was Richie.

But as I said...I forgive you. Come back Richie!

Nah, I never thought Jon would cheat on music with acting and/or football. What I meant is that Jon went to great lengths to achieve what he desired alongside his music career and failed but the failure wasn't necessarily only in money and ego but there could have been something else on the way, too. This is more or less what Jackie said. We don't know everything that was happening behind closed doors and we may never get to know the whole truth. We can be hurt or disgusted with certain moves but it still doesn't make us any kind of judges. It's personal both for them and for us and will be personal even if it has affected a lot of people.

I was never "mad" at Jon about it because I knew instantly that it couldn't possibly happen. I forgave him because in addition to his financial naivete, he was definitely taken advantage of by his so-called partners-to-be. You don't want to play "Jon vs. Richie?" Well, I don't want to play "Let he who is without sin among you cast the first stone." So I'll rephrase the question, your honor: "If JON -- hypothetically -- could forgive Richie enough to let him back into the band, why SHOULDN'T we?"

Depends on how much of their chemistry is left. I wouldn't want to watch them ignore each other on stage, and I also would like for it to be a creative reunion and have them write together again. Songs that say "Written by Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora" only. I say this because I am far more interested in new material from them that any possible shows these days....

If people did or people didn't that's on them I guess but Jon forgiving Richie doesn't completely make everything okay. If there's a bigger reason Richie left then we by all means should know it. If neither side wants to say then I'm sorry, but it's completely okay to feel how we do. It's not on us to play detective and find a bigger meaning then wanting to spend time with his daughter.

IF Jon were to forgive him and the creative juices were there and they dropped Shanks then hell yah that'd be ideal but I don't want him back if it's going to be by the numbers.

Richie didn't spend time with his daughter though. He went and sold knickers in shopping malls with some slapper. He was spinning Ava as a bullshit reason


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I don't know that anybody would want him back if it's just going to be by the numbers. Like Rosa and Nikos said, if they aren't on the same page and there's no real desire to work together, they would probably wind up in the same place they are now with nothing remotely worthwhile to show for their effort.

I wouldn't hold my breath to see if they agree that "we should know it" if there was a bigger reason, especially if it would in any way reflect badly on Jon or the band. I'm realizing more and more that the only dirty laundry that can't get aired is Jon's. And that's not taking a shot at him. That's just a fact.

You've said several times that it's not our job to play detective or find a bigger meaning. I'm not trying to back you into a corner or challenge you in any way; but I'm curious. Do you truly believe that when Richie left the band that he's been a part of, and that has been a part of him, for over 30 years, he had no reason that runs deeper than what we've been told? That he just decided not to show up?

Of course it's okay to feel the way you do. And I don't think Jon forgiving Richie would make you feel better about your cancelled shows, for sure. I can't imagine anything that would at this point. If the resentment over that is still hanging around after all this time, my guess is that it probably won't go away any time soon. But as you said, you're allowed to carry a grudge. I tried to make it clear that I wasn't judging you or anybody else for how you feel. I just don't understand it. But that's my problem, not yours or theirs.

This isn't about Jon or Richie; it's about fan reactions. I'm confused about why some of the same people who are still so upset with Richie for canceling shows and letting people down saw absolutely nothing wrong with Jon canceling Denver twice in one month. Nearly every single person involved in that discussion felt bad for the Denver fans, but with one or two exceptions, there was no outrage directed towards Jon for breaking his commitment to them and letting them down. Some even thought it was a smart business move. It was just understood that Jon HAD to reschedule MSG; so canceling Denver and letting those fans down, while unfortunate, was “unavoidable”. WTF? It wasn’t unavoidable. Cancelling the MSG concert because Jon was sick was unavoidable. Rescheduling MSG at the expense of Denver was a choice.

But, iirc, you weren’t the only one who couldn’t see a parallel between Richie letting people down because he didn’t follow through and Jon letting people down because he thought it was more important to reschedule a high-profile gig than it was to keep a commitment that he had already made to Denver.

I have to wonder if the people in Denver would agree with your rationale about broken trust. Or those in Cordoba, since Jon promised in 2013 to make up the shows that were cancelled due to Tico’s surgery “as soon as we can”. But just in the last week or so, he refused to work them into the schedule when he had the opportunity to do so this time around. Or how about the people who were planning to attend the NY State Fair a few years back, or the organizers who were hoping that Bon Jovi would boost the fair’s waning popularity, until a private gig upstaged them? Or Cleveland and Indy. I wonder if their trust needs to be earned back…

Like I said, I’m not judging anyone’s feelings or thought processes. And it’s not that I want people to be pissed off at Jon. I don’t want people to resent either one of them. I just seriously don’t get it. I was disappointed by both Jon’s and Richie's decisions, but I was equally disappointed in both of them for breaking commitments and I didn't lose all faith in either one as a result. Shit happens.

I don't expect everyone to see things the way I do. But help me understand why the same people who turned their backs on Richie because of his lack of follow-through aren't just as pissed off at Jon for letting people down and not following through on his commitments. Why does Richie get crucified while Jon gets a pass for doing the same damn thing? That's what I don't understand.

I know you can’t speak for everyone, but from your own perspective, can you help me see what it is that I'm missing? Is it because you aren’t as personally affected by Jon’s decisions as you were by Richie’s? I realize that you are convinced that Richie's shows were cancelled because of low ticket sales and that he lied when he said he had laryngitis; but I recall that someone raised the point that the Denver show hadn’t sold that well, yet no one jumped to the conclusion that Jon chose to reschedule MSG because Denver had lower ticket sales. Is it because you heard Jon sing with your own ears, so you believed he was sick; whereas you didn’t hear Richie “sound” sick? Surely it's not just because you think Richie lied. If that were the case, I would think that you'd detest Jon since he lies like a rug when he thinks it's necessary. (Again, not a shot at him; just a statement of fact.)

Please don’t think I’m demanding an explanation; I'm not. And I’m not asking you justify or defend your feelings. I’m just curious, because it just seems like such a double standard to me.

Of course he did. He just didn't sit parked up her ass 24/7/365, like some people apparently thought he should have, in order to prove to them that he wasn't lying. But he still spent a lot more time with her than he would have been able to had he been on the road with Jovi for the rest of that year.

That said, while I wouldn't call Ava a bullshit reason since he did spend more time at home, I have never believed that she was the primary reason. I think that was a smokescreen he could offer reporters to answer their questions and still keep band business inside the band. JMO.

Well, let’s see…

By definition, a grudge is “a persistent feeling of ill will or resentment resulting from a past insult or injury.”

I think 4 years and counting would probably qualify as “persistent”.

“Downright hate or detest him” could reasonably fall under the category of “feeling of ill will or resentment”.

And “for letting us down and the band down” pretty much takes care of “resulting from a past insult or injury”.



You are absolutely correct, sir. You don’t have to hold a grudge. But I’d say it seems quite likely that you do.

To be fair, the fact that you didn't like him to start with probably helped move things along. Now you have all the reason you need to justify hating him. Whatever gets you through the night...

Like I told the Captain, I'm not judging, just trying to understand the need to hold on that grudge you don't have to hold on to.

(And btw… Since letting people down seems to be reason enough for you to downright hate or detest someone, I guess Jon should be thanking his lucky stars that you didn’t buy tickets and make travel arrangements for the two cancelled shows in Denver. Do you understand, now, what I was talking about?)

inside me i cant believe richie just didnt went to work one day and since then noone talked to noone again...if for example richie had taken sth wasnt in a position to travel or perform he d probably take the next plane, he d miss a show.
there was a uk promo gig in 2013 where jon critisized richie on camera for not showing up for a rehearshal to watch football on tv...i think all these incidents are indications of bigger inside problems in the band. on the one side tico and david backed jon 100% and didnt seem to want richie back, on the other side i think jon probably took richie for granted and didnt pay him the respect he deserved the last years so they grew apart..there is a small sentence that jon used a couple times, his manager paul korzilius called and said...guess what??? and without further notice jon realised what happened... if thats the case it shows there were fears he wouldnt come back, there were arguments, there were threats or whatever...
its been 4 years now...it makes me sad that none of them has felt nostalgic enough and gone out of his way to talk to an old friend in person. to be honest and bitter i feel like they didnt truly appreciated what they had and both act too selfish when they dont take the time to meet in person and just talk...if they dont want to reunite thats fine, but none of them has the courage to face the other one???