Jovitalk - Bon Jovi Fan Community
Home Register Members FAQ Mark Forums Read
 

In light of Songs of Experience

General BJ Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 12-09-2017, 03:56 PM
Rdkopper's Avatar
Rdkopper Rdkopper is offline
Senior Member
The Distance
 
Join Date: 04 Oct 2008
Gender: male
Posts: 8,620
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda View Post
yeah right. What the heck gives you that idea? Just because rock that is written right now doesn't have mindless shredding up and down a guitar doesn't mean it's dead. Rock music as YOU know it is dead. Just like there was no 60s sounding new rock bands in the 80s, there are no 80s sounding rock bands in the 2010's.

X Ambassadors, Walk The Moon, July Talk, Nathaniel Ratecliff and the Night sweats, Imagine Dragons, Twenty One Pilots are all new bands that rock hard, and everyone knows who they are.
When I say Rock is dead, I'm referring to mainstream demand... Not Panda's top ten list...Sure there are a few one off bands on your list who are getting some mainstream play but it's not like it once was...

The Revivalists are a great band too btw...Hey, see what I just did there?
__________________
World’s Most Professional Bon Jovi Fan!!!

Last edited by Rdkopper; 12-10-2017 at 12:32 AM..
Reply With Quote

  #22  
Old 12-10-2017, 10:54 PM
jovifan93 jovifan93 is offline
Senior Member
Dry County
 
Join Date: 19 Mar 2013
Location: Berlin, Germany
Age: 46
Gender: male
Posts: 1,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda View Post
yeah right. What the heck gives you that idea? Just because rock that is written right now doesn't have mindless shredding up and down a guitar doesn't mean it's dead. Rock music as YOU know it is dead. Just like there was no 60s sounding new rock bands in the 80s, there are no 80s sounding rock bands in the 2010's.

X Ambassadors, Walk The Moon, July Talk, Nathaniel Ratecliff and the Night sweats, Imagine Dragons, Twenty One Pilots are all new bands that rock hard, and everyone knows who they are.
Actually no, except for Imagine Dragons, from which I've heard. But then again I'm not your age or that of your friends, sincerely detest terms like "millenials", and so on

Fact is: starting with the mid-late 90s, it was never cool to be a BON JOVI fan. You were always laughed at, while everyone found it ok or even cool to be a fan of bands like U2, the Stones. BJ just isn't hip or critically acclaimed - rightful or not. Believe me, I've lived with that for 25 years now, so your story doesn't suprise me the least

Even in the TD era, at least as far as I recall it, they had some airplay for (that dreadful) TAALS, but after that, that was it. I got a fan with the KTF record, and they were huge on MTV, radio, etc. Then Always came out, and it got even bigger. And then came TD, which I do like, but wasn't as "cool"/rocky as the previous stuff they did. And after that, it was only IML that brought them back on the radar for a short period of time, and that's probably it. Sad, but true...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-10-2017, 11:21 PM
rolo_tomachi rolo_tomachi is offline
Senior Member
Price of posting
 
Join Date: 19 Aug 2009
Gender: male
Posts: 6,263
Default

Foo Fighters have a more than acceptable degree of success and rock. What happens is that it is easier to go for the formula of pop in these days.

Metallica has made a great album, in his style, and has sold a lot. His tour is is being very successful like Guns N Roses.

Jon should be braver in this sense, and let the guitars speak, try to make a real rock album, with more energy, riffs, extended solos and less pop.

He don't have to do SWW again. He just has to make an album with more guitars and great riffs, he can continue talking about political issues or what he reads in the newspaper perfectly.

Bon Jovi needs an inflection point now that Sambora is not there, and I think it would be great if they recovered some of that energy and power. THINFS is not so different from what was done previously.

Come on Jon, if you read this, use phil, make an album with more rock sound, driven by guitars and powerful riffs.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-11-2017, 12:00 AM
RonJovi RonJovi is offline
Senior Member
Lay your Posts on Me
 
Join Date: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jovifan93 View Post
Actually no, except for Imagine Dragons, from which I've heard. But then again I'm not your age or that of your friends, sincerely detest terms like "millenials", and so on

Fact is: starting with the mid-late 90s, it was never cool to be a BON JOVI fan. You were always laughed at, while everyone found it ok or even cool to be a fan of bands like U2, the Stones. BJ just isn't hip or critically acclaimed - rightful or not. Believe me, I've lived with that for 25 years now, so your story doesn't suprise me the least

Even in the TD era, at least as far as I recall it, they had some airplay for (that dreadful) TAALS, but after that, that was it. I got a fan with the KTF record, and they were huge on MTV, radio, etc. Then Always came out, and it got even bigger. And then came TD, which I do like, but wasn't as "cool"/rocky as the previous stuff they did. And after that, it was only IML that brought them back on the radar for a short period of time, and that's probably it. Sad, but true...
Not sure that’s an accurate history lesson.

From what I recall, it was never cool to be a Bon Jovi fan. Not even in the 80s.

By the time KTF came around, they got decimated commercially in America. The single only got to 29 or something and the album got to 5 in the US. I recall someone posting on here that the first leg of the US tour was a bust. However, songs like BOR did okay and kept them on the map in the US as grunge wiped out all their peers. Always did likewise but These Days didn’t make much of an impression on the charts (charting at 9 if I’m not wrong). TAALS also did okay. By that stage, Bon Jovi were maintaining a fan base at home but it wasn’t huge and they were dreadfully uncool.

However, internationally, during that time they were arguably bigger in the 90s than the 80s. Faith topped the charts in a lot of countries, Always went stratospheric and TD was massively popular and got them some critical respect (one of Q Magazines top albums of 95). Everything they released in the UK was a hit and they sold out Wembley 3 nights running in 95. Them, U2 and REM were the three truly massive bands of that era.

IML hit, grunge was gone and BJ discovered a new audience at home. However their fan base has steadily declined over here since 2000 because of the musical direction they went in.

At least that’s my memory of 1992 to now.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-11-2017, 05:40 AM
Captain_jovi's Avatar
Captain_jovi Captain_jovi is offline
Moderator
This Post Feels Right
 
Join Date: 31 Jul 2002
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Age: 39
Gender: male
Posts: 13,752
Send a message via AIM to Captain_jovi Send a message via MSN to Captain_jovi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolo_tomachi View Post
Foo Fighters have a more than acceptable degree of success and rock. What happens is that it is easier to go for the formula of pop in these days.

Metallica has made a great album, in his style, and has sold a lot. His tour is is being very successful like Guns N Roses.

Jon should be braver in this sense, and let the guitars speak, try to make a real rock album, with more energy, riffs, extended solos and less pop.

He don't have to do SWW again. He just has to make an album with more guitars and great riffs, he can continue talking about political issues or what he reads in the newspaper perfectly.

Bon Jovi needs an inflection point now that Sambora is not there, and I think it would be great if they recovered some of that energy and power. THINFS is not so different from what was done previously.

Come on Jon, if you read this, use phil, make an album with more rock sound, driven by guitars and powerful riffs.
Foo Fighters aren't really all that successful in album sales in North America. I guess it depends what you call "success". They get tons of radio play but as far as albums/units sold. Live they're another story and that's kind of what Bon Jovi is, minus the radio play.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
Don't make the mistake of thinking that even 1% of Bon Jovi fans are like you, because they aren't. Don't think you know how Bon Jovi fans think. You don't. You know yourself. Stick to that.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-11-2017, 10:52 AM
jovifan93 jovifan93 is offline
Senior Member
Dry County
 
Join Date: 19 Mar 2013
Location: Berlin, Germany
Age: 46
Gender: male
Posts: 1,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonJovi View Post
Not sure that’s an accurate history lesson.

From what I recall, it was never cool to be a Bon Jovi fan. Not even in the 80s.

By the time KTF came around, they got decimated commercially in America. The single only got to 29 or something and the album got to 5 in the US. I recall someone posting on here that the first leg of the US tour was a bust. However, songs like BOR did okay and kept them on the map in the US as grunge wiped out all their peers. Always did likewise but These Days didn’t make much of an impression on the charts (charting at 9 if I’m not wrong). TAALS also did okay. By that stage, Bon Jovi were maintaining a fan base at home but it wasn’t huge and they were dreadfully uncool.

However, internationally, during that time they were arguably bigger in the 90s than the 80s. Faith topped the charts in a lot of countries, Always went stratospheric and TD was massively popular and got them some critical respect (one of Q Magazines top albums of 95). Everything they released in the UK was a hit and they sold out Wembley 3 nights running in 95. Them, U2 and REM were the three truly massive bands of that era.

IML hit, grunge was gone and BJ discovered a new audience at home. However their fan base has steadily declined over here since 2000 because of the musical direction they went in.

At least that’s my memory of 1992 to now.
Yeah ok, sorry, I should've said I was talking about Europe. I have/had no idea how they did in the US, or in the 80s, since I wasn't a fan back then.

But yeah, they were huge over here from 93-95/96, everything went no 1, multi-platinum, and so on... All those (no 1) singles from KTF - KTF, BOR, ITA, DC, hell even ISWID was a single with a video constantly running on MTV. And thus, you weren't smiled upon as much as you are nowadays. Good times
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-11-2017, 11:31 AM
Bounce7800's Avatar
Bounce7800 Bounce7800 is offline
Super Moderator
It's my post
 
Join Date: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Dagenham, UK
Age: 43
Gender: male
Posts: 4,505
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphavictim View Post
I think with JBJ, it really is that drive to prove he's "still got it". Releasing a greatest hits collection will not prove that to him, won't feed his ego and won't bring him that validation. He'll readily use modern production, outside songwriters, commercial sound - but to create something that proves to him that he and his new releases still resonate with the public. He wants that outside affirmation, which is why the failure of, for example, Everyday probably hurt him quite a bit; if he didn't care about that the track would've been on the GH. But he does care.
If he cared that much, he'd do a bit more promotion for the new stuff. Everyday didn't do too badly, was midweek #1 here until it tailed off, and they still had a lot of mainstream attention for the Bounce album. Had a striking video too which helped with MTV.

Speaking in terms of the UK at least, it's just been so lazy the last few albums, they just let it get a couple of plays on Absolute and Radio 2 and that's it. They don't have MTV airplay or for the most part radio airplay, so if he wants the wider audience to get the new stuff, he needs to get out there and shout about it.

They did the Palladium gig over here, but it didn't really generate much outside of the fanbase - why not film it and release some footage to show on TV? They recorded the audio for the CD, but why not play the whole thing on the radio instead? It's not as easy to get music on "terrestrial" tv these days but there's a few chat shows they can do - and I mean they, not the JBJ show, bring the band on, chat and perform.
__________________
* Shepherds Bush 1998 (Richie) * Wembley Stadium 2000 * Milton Keynes 2001 * Wembley Arena 2002 * Hyde Park 2003 * Ricoh Arena 2006 * St Marys 2006 * Milton Keynes 2006 * O2 Arena 2007 * St Marys 2008 * Manchester 2008 * Ricoh Arena 2008 * Ashton Gate 2008 * Twickenham x2 2008 * O2 Arena x8 2010 * Hard Rock Calling 2011 * Shepherds Bush 2012 (Richie) *Etihad Manchester 2013 * Villa Park 2013 * Hyde Park 2013 *O2 Islington 2014 (Richie) *London Palladium 2016 * O2 Arena 2016 (RSO)

*Twitter * * YouTube*
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-11-2017, 10:38 PM
RonJovi RonJovi is offline
Senior Member
Lay your Posts on Me
 
Join Date: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jovifan93 View Post
Yeah ok, sorry, I should've said I was talking about Europe. I have/had no idea how they did in the US, or in the 80s, since I wasn't a fan back then.

But yeah, they were huge over here from 93-95/96, everything went no 1, multi-platinum, and so on... All those (no 1) singles from KTF - KTF, BOR, ITA, DC, hell even ISWID was a single with a video constantly running on MTV. And thus, you weren't smiled upon as much as you are nowadays. Good times
I’d have to disagree with you on the TD era then. It didn’t stop after TAALS. That album was huge over here and all the singles got heavy rotation on MTV.

I recall a daily MTV Europe show called Dial MTV where viewers would dial in to request their favourite song of the day. All the These Days singles were regularly on top of that chart and, if I’m not wrong, Lie To Me held the record for consecutive days at number 1 or in the chart (can’t remember which). All the singles did well in the UK too with Hey God the lowest at number 13. There was little promotion for it and it was released over a year after the album so that was a decent showing.

There were countless Bon Jovi weekends on MTV through that era all the way into Destination Anywhere and the band also got on TFI Friday, a massive show at the time, when the These Days single was released. They were massive at that point. It wasn’t These Days that took the wind out of their sails in Europe - it was the post 2000 music.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-11-2017, 11:34 PM
rolo_tomachi rolo_tomachi is offline
Senior Member
Price of posting
 
Join Date: 19 Aug 2009
Gender: male
Posts: 6,263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_jovi View Post
Foo Fighters aren't really all that successful in album sales in North America. I guess it depends what you call "success". They get tons of radio play but as far as albums/units sold. Live they're another story and that's kind of what Bon Jovi is, minus the radio play.
Yep but I think Jon could have a somewhat more massive audience if he catches the attention of casual rock music.

SOE is not that it is selling much. Is number one on Billboard 200 with 186,000 copies in the first week. Metallica’s Hardwired… To Self-Destruct was No.1 with 291,000 copies and the album was several weeks in number 1.

Also say, that U2 has benefited from the sale of tickets per copy. Metallica at the time of the release did not count on this, although months later it did, and returned to number two of billboard 14 weeks after its debut. what a feat.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-12-2017, 02:23 AM
Alphavictim Alphavictim is offline
Senior Member
Jovi Freak
 
Join Date: 15 Sep 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 37
Gender: male
Posts: 3,490
Default

Regarding rock's popularity... I saw a list of the best selling heavy rock albums from the first half of 2017 in the US today. FIVE of the ten spots are Metallica. In case any of you guys are wondering why rock music is not all that much in touch with popular culture anymore and not as influential as it used to be: Well, it's a retro show it seems.

Of course, there's still great new rock music out there, but it's just not as culturally relevant as it used to be. And no, bands like Imagine Dragons don't rock hard.

Last edited by Alphavictim; 12-12-2017 at 02:27 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11.
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.