[Alphavictim]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

Like just imagine the type of rushed album we would have gotten without the 9/11 songs.

Huh? I thought a whole batch of 9/11 songs was abandoned because they were too dark, and stuff like AALY came AFTER all of that. Also, if they wrote in sessions, i.e. Everyday was written after 9/11, that means Andreas Carlsson (who co-wrote a ton) was brought in after 9/11. I don't think too much of Bounce is pre-9/11.

And I really like the verse melody of It Only Takes One To Say Goodbye. Also that guitar licks.

[Jovi98]

Originally Posted by Alphavictim

Huh? I thought a whole batch of 9/11 songs was abandoned because they were too dark, and stuff like AALY came AFTER all of that. Also, if they wrote in sessions, i.e. Everyday was written after 9/11, that means Andreas Carlsson (who co-wrote a ton) was brought in after 9/11. I don't think too much of Bounce is pre-9/11.

And I really like the verse melody of It Only Takes One To Say Goodbye. Also that guitar licks.

Hi,We know that the song " Crying " about the 9/11 It has been abandoned.... because for Jon it was too sad.... and yeah One to Say Goodbye has a beautiful melody... and when in the future the original demo it will be published or will appear for {magic} on internet we could give a more concrete judgment...

[Alphavictim]

The interview they had ob bonjovi.com for the Bounce era also mentioned that a lot of the sadder songs "never even left the notebook".

[Jovi98]

Originally Posted by Alphavictim

The interview they had ob bonjovi.com for the Bounce era also mentioned that a lot of the sadder songs "never even left the notebook".

Yes, ,but we don't know the name of these songs....

[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by Alphavictim

Huh? I thought a whole batch of 9/11 songs was abandoned because they were too dark, and stuff like AALY came AFTER all of that. Also, if they wrote in sessions, i.e. Everyday was written after 9/11, that means Andreas Carlsson (who co-wrote a ton) was brought in after 9/11. I don't think too much of Bounce is pre-9/11.

And I really like the verse melody of It Only Takes One To Say Goodbye. Also that guitar licks.

From what I recall the album's aggressive vibe came after 9/11 and begat songs like Undivided, Hook me Up etc.

VERY good point that Andreas would had to have been brought on board after 9/11 for all his songs to include him. Jon has said Everyday was one of the post 9/11 songs so you may be right. That would mean that Undivided, Everyday, Bounce, AALY, Hook Me Up, and You Had me from Hello would be after that, which is kind of my original point. Most of those songs have a pointed and direct message with aggression and songs like Lucky, Mona Lisa, Misunderstood, Breathe are all very wishy washy middle of the road pop rocekers.

To me I don't feel they had enough of an album written until that last batch of songs took place. Andreas's inclusion is iffy, he's credited as a co-producer on the entire album, as well as Desmond Child but there's no sign of him on BJ TV so does that mean he co-produced just the tracks he co-wrote or was it just a name in title alone?

[bonjovi90]

I honestly don't think they had a body of songs or a certain vibe of an album at all before 9/11, so dividing that doesn't make too much sense in my opinion.

They had been touring until July 28th and it's quite common that they always take August off to be with their families, so they had roughly been writing together for maybe 10 days at best when the tragedy happened.
Bar a few song sketches or maybe three or four songs, they probably didn't have too much any way.
9/11 only changed the way in terms of them having a certain influence and direction for some songs what had been lacking before and on Crush. Still, I think most of the other tracks were also written afterwards simply for the reason that Jon didn't want Bounce to be mistaken for an album about 9/11, as he relentlessly pointed out in promo interviews at the time.

[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by bonjovi90

I honestly don't think they had a body of songs or a certain vibe of an album at all before 9/11, so dividing that doesn't make too much sense in my opinion.

They had been touring until July 28th and it's quite common that they always take August off to be with their families, so they had roughly been writing together for maybe 10 days at best when the tragedy happened.
Bar a few song sketches or maybe three or four songs, they probably didn't have too much any way.
9/11 only changed the way in terms of them having a certain influence and direction for some songs what had been lacking before and on Crush. Still, I think most of the other tracks were also written afterwards simply for the reason that Jon didn't want Bounce to be mistaken for an album about 9/11, as he relentlessly pointed out in promo interviews at the time.

According to Wikipedia, which is a bad way to convey info, song writing began as early as May of 2001 when the OWN tour was still on.

"Between June and October 2001, band members wrote 25 songs and demoed totally 12 of them. Many of those songs were written in September and they were influenced by September 11 attacks. Those songs were "Standing" and "Another Reason to Believe".[5][6]

At the end of July 2001, Bon Jovi finished their Crush world tour with two sold-out shows at Giants Stadium in New Jersey. The band then took a three-week break after which Jon and Richie Sambora started writing songs, first in Los Angeles and later in New Jersey. They have demoed some of those new songs in New Jersey in November 2001. After that, Jon had to fulfill an acting commitment to the TV series Ally McBeal (1997-2002), so he stayed at Sambora's house in Los Angeles and during that time they continued with the songwriting process and demoing process at Luke Ebbin's house. Songwriting and demoing process went on until March 2002. and between March and June 2002. band recorded the album. By early July 2002. all the songs that ended up on the album were mixed and by the late July of the same year they were mastered. In a period of less than a year, the band wrote approximately 40 songs, 12 songs ended up on the album and several more songs in their demo versions ended up on singles as B-Sides. During the songwriting process, the band also wrote some songs that were written as a cathartic exercise. Those songs were written right after the September 11 attacks and they were mainly of woe from lyrical standpoint because they were influenced by that tragedy. Jon said that those songs were only written and will never be recorded.[7]"

so you're not wrong, I think I thought they were much further along when September 11th happened and that is not correct!

[Alphavictim]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

That would mean that Undivided, Everyday, Bounce, AALY, Hook Me Up, and You Had me from Hello would be after that, which is kind of my original point. Most of those songs have a pointed and direct message with aggression and songs like Lucky, Mona Lisa, Misunderstood, Breathe are all very wishy washy middle of the road pop rocekers.

Misunderstood is a) great and b) co-written by Carlsson. As is You Had Me From Hello, which is pure filler. AALY may have been a single (and according to Seb was brought in late - another co-write, too), but I much prefer Misunderstood. Lucky... yeah, that one sucks. Breathe I dig.

I'd reckon Postcards was also post 9/11, given the title / metaphor alone. That one is also great; wish it wasn't just a demo.

To me I don't feel they had enough of an album written until that last batch of songs took place. Andreas's inclusion is iffy, he's credited as a co-producer on the entire album, as well as Desmond Child but there's no sign of him on BJ TV so does that mean he co-produced just the tracks he co-wrote or was it just a name in title alone?

AFAIK, they went to HIS place to do the writing? Maybe they recorded some basic tracks with him. Might also have been part of his criteria to do writing at the time (he was high in demand).

And, as much as I like Bounce (it is a very INTERESTING record), I don't think they had EVER enough of an album written. It's batches of songs going in multiple directions, but it's not very cohesive. They could and should have spent one more month on writing, to come up with a proper lead single (Everyday was NOT up to the task) and more songs that pull in the same direction as the strongest cuts they already had.

But then again, 9/11 - they may have felt the album ought to come out soon-ish after the event. Did they play "one year after"-tributes or anything like that?

Also, they had a new product out every year during that timeframe. I wonder if they got a better deal with the label because that was part of it.

[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by Alphavictim

Misunderstood is a) great and b) co-written by Carlsson. As is You Had Me From Hello, which is pure filler. AALY may have been a single (and according to Seb was brought in late - another co-write, too), but I much prefer Misunderstood. Lucky... yeah, that one sucks. Breathe I dig.

I'd reckon Postcards was also post 9/11, given the title / metaphor alone. That one is also great; wish it wasn't just a demo.



AFAIK, they went to HIS place to do the writing? Maybe they recorded some basic tracks with him. Might also have been part of his criteria to do writing at the time (he was high in demand).

And, as much as I like Bounce (it is a very INTERESTING record), I don't think they had EVER enough of an album written. It's batches of songs going in multiple directions, but it's not very cohesive. They could and should have spent one more month on writing, to come up with a proper lead single (Everyday was NOT up to the task) and more songs that pull in the same direction as the strongest cuts they already had.

But then again, 9/11 - they may have felt the album ought to come out soon-ish after the event. Did they play "one year after"-tributes or anything like that?

Also, they had a new product out every year during that timeframe. I wonder if they got a better deal with the label because that was part of it.

I agree with most of that, yeah. Misunderstood while not filler, just felt like boy/girl pop rock that sounded like songs of the era. Obviously they needed something new to capitalize on the resurgence but man, I think more time off would have lead to a more cohesive record.

Postcards I love BECAUSE of how under produced it is. You can hear one or two basic guitar tracks and that's it on an album with a mountain of overdubs.

[Alphavictim]

Misunderstood sounds more like the Goo Goo Dolls than anything else.

And Postcards has a drum machine and some static noise at times. THAT's what bothers me. The lead vocal could also be punchier, so these are why I'd appreciate a full-on produced version of the track. WITHOUT strings, mind you.