It's time to tune down a hole tone Jon

Don't mean to start the whole 'jon voice was better in the 90s' thing. I'm actually trying to get a bit more technical here.

We all (or a lot of us) know that the band have been playing their gigs with their instruments tuned a half tone down. We all know how he struggles with certain notes and songs. Isn't this the time for the band to tune their instruments a WHOLE tone or who knows, even a tone and a half on certain songs ? I mean, isn't it that obvious ? What's taking Jon so long to realize it ? If he REALLY thinks he's still capable of singing those notes, perhaps he should try stop smoking.

Obie, I hope you're reading this and pass the massage to Jon.

It's not actually as simple as that. It's the range he struggles with which means the lower notes would start giving him as much trouble as the higher ones did - that's one reason why IML sounds so flat when played live.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!



It's a sad reality I must face, Jon's gotta tone down

IML ? which one's that again ? :P

i know it's not as simple as that, which is why I said they could use the whole tone down on certains songs only. Lower notes are hard to reach as well, no doubt about it. Imagine him trying to sing queen of new orleans a whole tone down lol

oh IML -> it's my life ? i dont think it sounds flat but it certainly doesn't have that edge. Still, it's even more sad to see him struggle like that

I believe in Amsterdam during the HAND tour they tuned down a whole step for Last Man Standing. It sounds too flat in my opinion.

Here is the video from it:


notice that Richie isn't using a capo on the first fret as they do on all the other LMS performances. If I remember correctly this is one of the first shows where they played LMS and seems like they were just testing out the song in that particular key. Only confusion is...if they tune down half a step when playing this song live what is the point of using a capo? I'm assuming that they tune the actual guitar down a whole step and then just put the capo on the first thus making the guitar half a step lower. I would guess that they recorded the song the capo was used in original tuning and just left it live except tuned down the guitar itself which would not force richie to move up the finger positions.

Maybe someone can clear this up for me.

A whole step down is A LOT really and I would just prefer him to re arrange how he sings the parts he struggles with.

It's all fairly subjective anyways. Sitting watching videos with terrible quality in youtube is a bit different than being at a live show in th emoment and if you're standing during any gig where the singer isnt downright terrible and fretting over their voice you should probably have saved your money since you're being overly critical.

What a refreshing view Jim. More people should adopt it.

I dunno.... the only standards that people are comparing Jon to are his own past performances, so nobody can claim that we are being overly critical. There's no doubt he is the weak link in the band when playing live.

Having said that Jim has a point, when you are at the concert itself you tend to not scrutinise as closely. I think most people were praising the 2008 MSG shows but once the DVD came out people were not happy with the vocals.

In Amsterdam LMS was played a tone and a half down. I agree, far too flat! Normally, like every other show where LMS was played, Richie's guitar was tuned down a half step. The capo was then still put on the second fret. In Amsterdam however, his guitar was still tuned down a half step but with no capo, effectively making it tuned down a tone and a half. Obviously, because of the open D string in the riff, he had to change his fingering too. On the record with the capo on 2nd, the open D became the open E. Normal live LMS, half step tuned down with capo on 2nd, open D became an Eb; Amsterdam tuning, half step tuned down, no capo, open D became a C#.

So E on the record became a C# in Amsterdam, 3 semitones down. Shite.

I think Gav'll back me up on that setup. Won't you Gav

Dave