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Old 09-09-2018, 11:30 PM
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What are peoples views on Shanks? Is he truly responsible for the current sound? How much blame can be laid at his door for Richies departure?

Does his continued presence impinge on your love of the band and moreover threaten their legacy? How do you feel seeing him up on stage?

I was not exactly a fan and today listened to his podcast with Everyone Guitar. Suffice to say I now like him even less. For me he comes across as arrogant and full of his own importance. I also remember him retweeting that photoshopped image of Sambora gazing at the band during their THINFS shoot. So disrespectful.

As far as Im concerned Shanks friendship with Jon has brought about the end of the Bon Jovi we knew and love. To his detriment Jon cant look beyond him as far producers go and its resulting in serious dissatisfaction amongst the fan base.

It was pretty insulting to see Shanks up there at the RHOF performance. Its also pretty insulting to know he handles most of the studio solos whens Phil X is now an official member. How is that allowed to happen?

Anyone else wish Jon was brave enough to move in another direction?
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:57 AM
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I wonder why Jon decided to dump Luke Ebbin (and Bob Rock / Peter Collins before him) in the first place? It's true Crush (and some songs on Bounce) sound a bit unfinished, but I find myself missing that more raw sound on those albums (and it's not like Ebbin can't make a song sound more polished, as his work on Richie's Aftermath of the Lowdown shows).

I agree Shanks shouldn't have performed at the RNRHOF and Phil X should be performing all guitar parts in the studio from this point on (except for any acoustic guitar parts Jon wants to record himself and unless by some miracle Richie ever comes back). I actually like Shanks' producation on HAND, LH, and TC, but it's just gotten boring and repetative as time has gone on.
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:14 AM
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to me all the fault is of Jon Bon Jovi, it's his "name at the marquee" blablabla

I don't know, for example I don't like Phil X guitar work but I think he generally is a nice guy

the Rolo's pic... I think we all had fun with that, so I don't find it disrespectful, it was just a silly thing... lol; of course then Matt said on twitter that had nothing what to do with the Bon Jovi organization

some people here HATE Shanks all the way, I hate a lot of things but I don't hate Shanks... as always say I like more Shanks than Phil X

and Richie, Richie is on another level of course!!!
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Zakatar View Post
I wonder why Jon decided to dump Luke Ebbin (and Bob Rock / Peter Collins before him) in the first place?
Wasn't Peter Collins basically fired from These Days and Jon and Richie finished the production without him?
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:25 AM
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Wasn't Peter Collins basically fired from These Days and Jon and Richie finished the production without him?
It would be interesting to know more details about this.

Concerning Shanks, it is sad that he is so despised around here BUT... imo he has largely contributed to the deadlock where BJ find themselves in the last many years.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:03 PM
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The sad thing is as a fan base we're pretty much resigned to the fact he's here to stay. Jon is actually on record as saying Shanks will produce until they finish. What a depressing prospect.

Part of me thinks that, aside from their friendship, Jon trusts Shanks to cover up his vocal flaws. Initially he was chasing radio play, now it's something else entirely.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:18 PM
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Jon is actually on record as saying Shanks will produce until they finish. What a depressing prospect.
Jon is also on record that the guy who did TLFR will "certainly" produce the next album (which was to become HAND).

I'd assume Luke Ebbin was let go because Bounce did not sell well, or rather, did not produce a hit single. Zero of its songs were on the Greatest Hits album that came out in 2010 (?).

First I've heard of PC being fired from TD, anybody got info on that one?
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:04 PM
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I think Ebbins getting canned could have been sales related. Shanks has put out multiple flop albums with the band but without label interference it doesn't really matter.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:29 PM
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Shanks can be a good producer/ songwriter and guitarist...just listen to Burning Bridges in detail: some good songs and fantastic (better than recent Richie) guitar work.

So why has he been such a bad influence? Id say the mix of John+Jon
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:53 PM
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Ebbin getting fired because Bounce didn't sell well could have been a reason - but on the other hand it's not his fault that the band didn't come up with hit material for the album. Without Max Martin, they probably wouldn't have had a hit on Crush either. Well, that's how it works everywhere. When a football team doesn't deliver, the coach is the first one to get sacked as well.

When Shanks came on board, they had a hit with Who Says You Can't Go Home and the following album was their first one to launch at number one if I remember correctly. That might've been a reason for him to stay.

Shanks definitely gets more hate than necessary amongst fans, but him being there is at least very closely connected to the point when it all started to go wrong with the band.
At that time, they were still trying to be hip and chasing hits. Shanks' sound was something they deemed to be current and I'm sure the band was absolutely fine with that. But the problem was that Shanks took that "wall of sound" to a new level and while they've had utilized loops and samples on the Bounce tour, they now needed more musicians to replicate the songs with multiple layers live. Jon's chance to go for his little own E-street band by taking Bobby and Jeff on tour with them.
But having Bobby as a permanent and Shanks taking over more and more control of the song production (also by doing tons of basic guitar parts) probably contributed to Richie feeling more disconnected with the brand that was Bon Jovi. We all know how huge Richie's ego is and in the long run, it surely pissed him off.

What I blame Shanks mostly for is that his way of producing songs has really watered down the quality of the songs. In fact, the songwriting hasn't changed too much over the course of the band's career. But since they've abandoned doing demos and all basic tracks are laid down by Jon, Shanks and a drum computer, there isn't much room for a song to develop. If someone like Tico and David only add their parts, they can put in a certain fill or vibe, but a song that's basically finished can only benefit so much from that. Dynamically, it can only evolve by them all being in a room and working on the songs. Remember that a song like Something For The Pain was re-done about 12 times? That's why it sounds different to anything. It developped and became something unique. Nowadays that's impossible.
I like the "New Year's Day" story, but it also brutally shows how stale the production process had become in the decade leading up that.
I'm sure that, at first, the band members were satisfied with that kind of production because of the frantic pace that the band used to have in terms of releases in the early 2000's. Have A Nice Day was practically done at the same time the stuff for the Box Set was done and re-worked. They surely welcomed that change of pace that this approach brought and then settled into it over the years.
And someone also brought up Jon's voice. I think that's a major factor these days as well. Not that only Shanks can hide it, probably any accomplished producer could do so. But I truly think that Jon is aware of how bad he sounds and might be embarassed to go into the studio with someone different.
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