Jon on Bruce

i'm doing a research programme on dimwits such as yourself

read my ****ing long posts before you comment ***

why does this not surprise me?

there's more than one - and it's bloody obvious that at the moment there are 1 or 2 voices speaking for the whole of the western world

i have the option to go to mcdonald's or to go to Italian restaurants... I go to the latter

so you're saying jon hasn't exploted the music market for 20 years - last 5 especially???

Let me hear your mini autobiography please mr DB in relation to BJ and their music... thank you

Derek, you raise points even the Bruce fans have raised. Yes, Mary's Place is a Sam Cook rip off even if it is fun, especially in concert. I agree that few songwriters could do what Bruce did, but I don't think it is because he is Saint Bruce, however. I really do believe Bruce is one of the few songwriters who is hugely popular who would be able to address the topic so directly and yet with subtlety. There is a reason he is Saint Bruce But I do agree with you that Jon was put in a bad position with Bounce following The Rising. First of all Jon and Richie were already writing when the towers fell and Bruce began some time after, so no copying could have been going on that is for sure. I really wish Undivided had been released- country singers like Toby Keith and Alan Jackson have been exploiting the event galore and they get nothing but records sales and kudos for it. Undivided to me is such a raw song- full of anger, grief, and yet hope and in many ways moves me more than the songs individually on The Rising. They would have taken heat for releasing it but I think maybe the sales would be better. Sorry if that sounds cynical, as I do not think either Bruce or Jon were exploiting events, but I think in retrospect Jon should not have been afraid to put it out there. Bruce by the way has always commented on world events- Born in the USA is not a rah rah patriotic song, it is an indictment of how veterans of the Vietnam War were treated.

the cleverest people will realise that the rising is very political in a subcontextual way...

it is also anti-american in some ways... just in the wording of the songs, but is of course also sympathetic and resilient...

with bruce things are never black and white... i don't mind people criticising him but i don't normally agree with their reasons since they criticise him for example for being black but not white, or white but not black, but the truth is he is ALWAYS both... however the scales may be tipped

I agree with you, JediJovi. I'm not a huge Bruce fan but there is no Bruce vs. Bon Jovi sentiment in my household either. I think Jon had a valid point when he gave an honest answer to a (probably overasked) question by a reporter. That Bruce fans don't like the answer, well.. too bad. I think I have some valid points too... my opinion is my opinion.
I still think that Bruce can do things that no one else can because there is a general acceptance that Bruce can do no wrong (although, he clearly can't dance.) That is a great freedom and a sad carte blanche... if anyone else had written those songs, released that album, they'd have been questioned. I have no doubt about it. I'm not faulting Bruce... it's just the way it is. It's a reality. Bon Jovi will never be Bruce. And Jon never saw that as a goal... it's only those people who insist there needs to be competition, comparison and insults that perpetuate this nonsense.

Now, to address further imbecilic inquires lobbed in my general direction:
1) Research, eh? Dimwits? Is that the honest best you can do?
2) 3247 posts and none of them worth reading in their entirety. 3247!? Damn... you are using your own posts in the footnotes of that thesis, right?
3) Becky's a smart woman. Birds of a feather...
4) If you want to take a post that is obviously about Bruce as a poet laureate voice of a nation and turn it into a political debate about Iraq, be my guest but go talk to someone who gives a shit... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. sometimes, a discussion about Bruce is just a discussion about Bruce. sometimes someone looking to make trouble is just someone looking to make trouble...
5) If I want MickeyD's I eat at MickeyDs. If I want Italian food, I go to an Italian restaurant. Some of us don't need to choose which is better - just which one suits our appetite at that given moment. Capiche?
6) Exploted? Welcome to the music industry... it's all about exploiting the media to get the most attention to grab the most listeners to sell the most records to sell the most concert tickets to sell the most t-shirts... I didn't talk about the music industry - I mentioned 9/11. Capiche?

I am sorry if I wasn't clear.

Explanation:
Sentence 1 - Introduction.
Sentence 2 - Body.
Sentences 3-4 - Conclusion.

I guess that post was about my trying to understand why Bruce leaves me indifferent. That's all.

Like it was said one's man trash is another man's treasure. Exactly.

why?
when jon says something like that he knows that he will get half the music world against him! so why say that?
the rising isn't the best sprinsteen rekord and bounce ins't the best bon jovi album! these artist aren't even playing in the same division, one of them are playing to a more adult audience and the other are playing to a younger audience. so don't compare the albums, it's like comparing rolling stones with coldplay!

why?
when jon says something like that he knows that he will get half the music world against him! so why say that

Its a good point, thing is did is he really say it or ahs someone twisted it. If he did say it its pretty stupid as he would lose some of Bruce s fans respect.

Dawn

nope

read just that 1 then that says everything i'll ever need to say about why i like/don't like BJ and what i do and don't like

when did i say she wasn't smart - she blatantly is

i didn't turn it into that- merely saying that's one of many ways the rising album can be interpreted - some praises US / some criticises... it seeks understanding - sometimes it obviously fails...

touchee

always

i wasn't looking for trouble - but while i'm just as guiitly as overs for criticising things without trying to appreciate them the album is not as clear-cut, defined as some make it out to be... as for the lyrics not being complicated...

the main thing i love about bruce are his lyrics: "mad-man bummers, and indians in the summer with a teenage diplomat"

i mean what the hell does that mean???? I haven't a clue but I think that is amazing and i know i could never be that inventive with my lyrics...

and on the rising they are simpler - but at the same time a few correctly chosen words can simplistically say more than an intricately woven passage anyday

you missed my point - it's fair to say I don't only listen to Bruce and not Bon jovi - quite the oposite i listen to BJ much more, and Bruce not enough... i liked his new album but i don't listen to it over and over again, mainly because i am someone who prefers songs live - that's when the real test is...

music is something people identify with yes, and is a matter of taste, but at the same time there are certain qualities that make music "music"

i'm aware this may be at anyone other than me - but i didn't say Bruce was exploting his market. If I said BJ were i meant they are exploting the modern market (not 9/11) - yes there's nothing wrong with this and music/capitalism is all about exploiation - but sometimes artistic elements should supercede increasing the bank balance by another 1%

i'm not disputing that therefore

But what YOU determine to be artistic element being sacrificed for a 1% increase in the bank account is merely your opinion. Face it... you can argue all you like about any artist's release but that artist is not going to release something they're not proud to have their name on.
Clearly, the band is very proud of the art (and yes, it is art) that they created and put forth in the world on this album.
To question their intent and presume they sacrificed their creativity in order to line their pockets... it's not our place. It can be your opinion but unless you're in the room when they write and record and perform, we'd be hardpressed to have any solid answers on what really goes into the creation of the album. It's all conjecture and speculation and imagination.

makes you question their sanity though

I'm not telling you it's not, just that i'm saying it's not... but in what ways do you consider it artful?

you're right here of course, but since this is a discussion board we mould it as such...

otherwise do away with the whole forum