Jon's Voice

Your mind is more powerful then any drug could ever be. Ever hear of the placebo effect? There are countless cases of this: One is about two groups of people, all of whom are suffering from stomach ulcers. One group is given a new drug which has been found to vastly improves suffers health. The second group is given the placebo with no medical benifit at all. In both groups 75% of people noted a major improvement. Why? Because the people who were given nothing believed without a doubt they were getting a tablet that would help them and thus their brain sent the same signals to the body that healed the individual.

There are famous cases of people being put into a hypnotic state and told they were going to be touched on the arm with a searing hot piece of metal, when infact they were touched with an ice cube. Inverabley a blister would appear where the person was touched by the ice cube because they believed they were getting burnt.

There's a famous doctor and hypnotherapist in Arizona, I believe, called Dr. Milton Erickson, who was able to perform over eighty major surgeries on people without the need for any anastehic because he was able to get the patient to release the same chemicals in their brain that the anastehtic dose. The have been studies done by a Harvard professer who could shoot a person up with anphetimiens yet talk them into a deeply relaxed state, while he could shoot another person with a barbituante yet get them into an incredible excited state.

The most amazing story I've ever heard is of a woman who suffered from multiple personality disorder. In her actual personality her blood sugar was completely normal, but when she went into the other personality she actually developed diabeties. She truly believed she suffered from that disease and it actually transformed her physiology! When she went back to herself it dissapeared!

What dose this all have to do with anything? The mind is more powerful then any drug ever could be, whatever you believe becomes the truth. You always have total control over how you feel, even if you're not aware of it. All drugs do is release certain chemicals in your brain and since you control your brain, not the other way around, you can feel however you want to without the need for any drugs. Infact it's well known the effects drug users feel from what they take is always in line with what they expect to happen, not what actually should happen.



Phil

People may complain about Jon, but to me Bono sounds much worse. His voice is horribly raspy now.

Nicotine affects your brain and thus your mind. It relaxes your brain and boosts up your body. I don't know about the exact effects of heroin and the likes, but it's most likely to affect your brain as well. Of course it's your mind who has the power to "create" such things as joy (and hallucinations), but still, it's "drug boosted" if you take one. And before you take your shots on me, I'm completely sober, but it's futile to argue about the point of wheter a clean head or any given drug gets one higher.

There, there....have some vicodin for that excitability problem of yours. Then learn to read things in context.

All your example are cool Phil, except it's the unconscious part of everyone of them's mind that did the job. None of them consciously started to repeat to him/herself "I believe in this, so this will happen rather than that" and actually believed in it.


Ponrauil

I believe his point is, whether you consider it 'unconscious' or not, it is still YOUR brain, and thus, under your control, should you take the charge. As to how this applies to Jon, I think he is just putting himself out of a job. Maybe it's exceptionally tough for him to quit (moreso than people who have quit), but it is also his profession which suffers, not just his body. Look at Lance Armstrong, there is no denying that his body is just built for biking and sports--it is a gift that no one can compete with, but were he to start smoking, he wouldn't be up to snuff, and he would fail, despite his infinite potential and genetic superiority (for this career). If you were a runner, you wouldn't coat your legs in slop before you went for a run. Even the greatest runner in the world through genetics and determination, would fail.

Jon will fail as well.

It is a fact that he is unable to perform at his best if he is smoking despite the amazing pipes and his gift for performance. And if he were to quit smoking, he may very well have pangs for a cigarette throughout his life, but he could still do it. And, he hasn't even tried to quit seriously (if he had it would have been ALL over the tabloids because he would have said something) because he hasn't had the need to. People accept his deterioration and he adapts to it as well.

Also, he is a capitalist to the bone, a true marketeer, and a master of talking points.

Stop buying the goods, and perhaps maybe they'll be forced to get better. But, when you sell over 200000 copies of a record in one week based on your undeniable past and public image, why change the status quo? And if you continue to garner new fans, why change things when it's all new to them?

And, while the new record shouldn't garner them any awards, it ain't bad either.

B

All the examples he gave of brains taking control where unconscious brain take overs (through lies/dissimulation, hypnosis, chemestry, mental disorder, etc...), that's nowhere near "under control". If it was the sole conscious will would be enough.

I know the point he's trying to make, he's just going to need valid examples to prove it.


Ponrauil

It is still your mind AND it was the entirely human act of hypnosis which caused the brain to act this way. All these events (if they are true) were completely controlled by human manipulation, not merely some uncontrollable 'unconscious.' I have been hypnotized before. It is all choice, trust, and comfort with being manipulated. It is a conscious choice (not like in the movies).

B

Actually the placebo effect is an example of that. They conciously believed they were getting something that would improve their ulcers, when infact they were getting nothing of the sort at all, and because they believed it, they sent their brain the same signals and that caused their ulcers to improve.

Something else you said is exactly true though, that just saying "this will go away", or whatever, really dosen't work at all. It's better then saying "I'll never get over this" but that's not how you help yourself. You have to believe it fully. There is however a very effective therapy available that works through visualisation(sp?) because your unconcious mind can't tell the difference between something real and something you imagine in vivid detail. In that way you bypass the questioning concious mind and work directly on the unconcious mind where you hold all your highest values and beliefs. What you find then is you can change your beliefs which changes your thinking, which in turn changes how you feel, and how you feel determines how you'll behave, at any given time.



Phil

Alright, I get what you're saying. Up above I was simply trying to prove the point that your mind is more powerful then any drug, that you can overcome the affects of any drugs if send your brain the right signals. The point is, concious or unconcious, you still have total control over your brain, the example I gave above about visualisation is something that allows you to control that unconcious part of your mind and something you can do very easily.

I'll give you a great example. A couple weeks back I had to go and get a few wharts burnt off my hand, and from all reports that is a very painful procedure. So basically what I did while in the waiting room was to do a little hypnosis/visualisation on myself and I actually numbed my hand by sending the right signals to my brain. My hand actually became totally numb and I felt nothing. So as I said, whether it's your concious mind or your unconcious mind you have all the control.



Phil