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Lip Synch in Livin on a Prayer?

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Old 03-04-2017, 09:37 PM
jrssww jrssww is offline
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Default Lip Synch in Livin on a Prayer?

Hi All,

I'm a long time lurker and first time poster! At the risk of being crucified by you I was watching a live video of the Sacramento concert and I noticed that during the high Livin on a Prayer just before the solo at around the 2:40 mark, Jon's mouth closes much before the note finishes. I looked at other live videos from this tour and in every concert, that part in LOP is "sung" exactly identically. I know he's been struggling with his voice but I'm really surprised by this observation. If it is true maybe he doesn't have a choice. What do you think?

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Old 03-04-2017, 10:26 PM
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Gregsynthbootlegs Gregsynthbootlegs is offline
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You are correct. That is definitely lip-synced.

It sounds like they are using the vocal track from the New Jersey pitch-corrected show from 2013.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:28 PM
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Im not sure what you mean? He's not singing before 2:40 and then he sings @ 2:40-2:44 "Li-vin' on a pra-yeeer" and mouth follows the melody precisely. And solo follows right after the line.

Maybe you had youtube-related sync problems?

But talking about singing: he has very WEIRD "technique" it seems. On this video, Jon's very focused (eyes closed etc.) and it sounds almost in-tune (bit flat) & ok, but singing comes out very thin and it looks like a struggle for him all the way through. He's using the "MTV acoustic 1989" melody for many parts (which is lower than the original) and there's just some very odd feeling in his performance.

Last edited by rokuli; 03-04-2017 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:54 PM
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I bet he is using a back track like he used to on the SWW tour, I saw a vid from another gig that right before the "liivin on a praaaayer" he look to the back of the stage, like, expecting something
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Old 03-05-2017, 12:06 AM
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This has definitely been talked about here for since as long as the board has been around so you won't be crucified. And yep, sometimes he lip syncs it completely and sometimes he has a backing track to augment it. It's been that way since at least the Bounce tour? Does anyone know how early it started?
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Old 03-05-2017, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain_jovi View Post
This has definitely been talked about here for since as long as the board has been around so you won't be crucified. And yep, sometimes he lip syncs it completely and sometimes he has a backing track to augment it. It's been that way since at least the Bounce tour? Does anyone know how early it started?
It's been inconsistent and depended on the state of Jon's voice. Started around 2002, he stopped around 2007 as his voice got better and was live all the way to 2015; even in 2013 H2 as he sounded attrocious he still kept trying to do it live, to his credit I guess. And if I remember correct, that very first 2015 show he also tried, but obviously failed miserably and so for the second show the crew started playing that 2013 Metlife recording.

Nowadays, he sings on top of the playback, but the playback part gets removed from those official soundboard recordings.

And yes, it's been discussed to death, I'm baffled how people still question this at this stage, or even worse, try to make the case that Jon is "in fact singing live"

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Originally Posted by rokuli View Post
Im not sure what you mean? He's not singing before 2:40 and then he sings @ 2:40-2:44 "Li-vin' on a pra-yeeer" and mouth follows the melody precisely. And solo follows right after the line.

Maybe you had youtube-related sync problems?
yeah...

Last edited by Walleris; 03-05-2017 at 12:22 AM..
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:41 PM
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I'm just wondering if that's the only part of the song(s) where he uses the backing track, or if any of those high notes before or in the chorus (in LOAP) are from that backing track, as well?

Could explain why he sounds so weird on the lower parts and then good on the higher parts. Maybe one could even trigger that based on the melody line, if the backing track is tempo-synched (or they're playing to a click track)? Like if the melody goes higher than X, then turn up the backing track, otherwise turn it down. Just a thought...
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jovifan93 View Post
I'm just wondering if that's the only part of the song(s) where he uses the backing track, or if any of those high notes before or in the chorus (in LOAP) are from that backing track, as well?

Could explain why he sounds so weird on the lower parts and then good on the higher parts. Maybe one could even trigger that based on the melody line, if the backing track is tempo-synched (or they're playing to a click track)? Like if the melody goes higher than X, then turn up the backing track, otherwise turn it down. Just a thought...
They got backing vocals for the chorus in Prayer since at least 2000, I guess even earlier than that. And the band sings on top of that.

Yes, they're playing Prayer to a click track (I think they've been doing it onthat song since the the SWW tour). And they got someone sitting backstage at some special rack who is just there for triggering the needed loops and backing tracks. Someone mentioned before that Jon must've looked down to someone backstage right before the much discussed line in LOAP, so they might actually rely on eye contact for certain critical parts.
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bonjovi90 View Post
They got backing vocals for the chorus in Prayer since at least 2000, I guess even earlier than that. And the band sings on top of that.

Yes, they're playing Prayer to a click track (I think they've been doing it onthat song since the the SWW tour). And they got someone sitting backstage at some special rack who is just there for triggering the needed loops and backing tracks. Someone mentioned before that Jon must've looked down to someone backstage right before the much discussed line in LOAP, so they might actually rely on eye contact for certain critical parts.
Makes sense, but wouldn't work quite the way I meant. I meant that if any note higher than a certain threshold automatically comes from the backing track and the rest does not. But forget it, I just realized that that would've been noticeable on the soundboard recordings, since the backing track is (obviously, for whatever reason) not used/mixed in there...
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jovifan93 View Post
I'm just wondering if that's the only part of the song(s) where he uses the backing track, or if any of those high notes before or in the chorus (in LOAP) are from that backing track, as well?

Could explain why he sounds so weird on the lower parts and then good on the higher parts. Maybe one could even trigger that based on the melody line, if the backing track is tempo-synched (or they're playing to a click track)? Like if the melody goes higher than X, then turn up the backing track, otherwise turn it down. Just a thought...
Jovi uses backing tracks for quite a few songs live, mostly backing vocals. Knockout, THINFS, Roller Coaster, It's My Life, We Don't Run, Devils In the Temple, Have a Nice Day, Prayer etc. Most songs uses lot of layers with backing vocals in the studio which makes them hard to recreate without backing tracks live.
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