[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by Thinny

Do you know how much money and investment went into making Nirvana so huge? A lot....the labels plan things well in advance. Once Nirvana started gaining traction, yes in 1991 (Smells Like Teen Spirit began to hit at radio in August 1991, by November it had been a top 10 single all over the world...they may not have taken over yet, but they were well on the way), that's when the labels saw that there was a change coming and shifted focus towards the grunge bands. Of course they still had stuff going on with more 80s rock bands with schemes that they had in place before hand, however, they stopped funelling money into it well before 1992....unless you were one of the giants (GNR, etc)

In fact, do you remember the 80s' rock magazine RIP?! There was a gig for that magazine, in 1991, which the band I work with played...the rest of the line up? Spinal Tap, Alice In Chains, Pearl Jam, Screaming Jets, Soundgarden. The tide had already changed....

You're missing my point... I'm not disagreeing with any of that... My point is, just because Nirvana had a top ten single all of a sudden, didn't mean that every hair metal band was suddenly obsolete. Nirvana's hit started a chain reaction that catapulted the entire grunge revolution... Pearl Jam had an album out before Nirvana but took longer to get a charted hit... Until people figured out what it was, Smells Like Teen Spirit was just another rock song for the most part of 1991... It took multiple singles for them to become the super giants they became... We're debating a very fine timeline...It took some time. Not much time but still took some time...

What started this discussion was someone stating that Nirvana had impacted Richie's album in terms of both musical change and record support... and the answer is still the same which is NO IT DIDNT...

Richie wasn't a new artist and was part of one of the biggest bands in the world so he got the record support that he needed... Richie wasn't competing with Nirvana musically. He missed it all by three months which is a life time in the music business...

Btw, did you include Spinal Tap on that list? You do know what Spinal Tap was, right? I'm starting to question your knowledge when you include stuff like that... You forgot Wayne's World and Bill and Ted's band Wyld Stallyns...



Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by Thinny

I don't think a Richie Sambora solo album was ever competing against Michael Jackson or even Metallica and GNR. The guitarist of a rock band, however successful, is rarely going to be that mainstream. Look at Joe Perry's solo albums for instance. A Jon solo album, sure, but not an RS solo album, even in 1991! He was competing against the mid sized rock acts of that time, not the giants.

Then why would it compete against Nirvana which basically started this whole discussion?

[Thinny]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

What started this discussion was someone stating that Nirvana had impacted Richie's album in terms of both musical change and record support... and the answer is still the same which is NO IT DIDNT...

Wrong. Just plain wrong. in 1991 record labels dropped support for a lot of 80s rock bands to then plough that money into up and coming grunge bands. That is a fact, whether you like to agree with it or not. They stopped signing new 80s rocked acts and once the existing bands saw their contracts out, and they'd squeezed every last penny out of them they were dropped. Apart from a couple of ballady one hit wonders no 80s rock band broke big or sold millions of albums after 1991, except those that were already huge multi million selling artists (GNR, Leppard, Jovi).

How do you think the bands that broke big in 1992 managed to do that?....it came after months and months of planning and millions of dollars of investment which all started in 1991. The labels only have a certain budget to spend on breaking and promoting acts, particularly rock acts, and that all went to grunge from then on. Again, this is a fact. But you can believe what you want, you always do!

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

Btw, did you include Spinal Tap on that list? You do know what Spinal Tap was, right? I'm starting to question your knowledge when you include stuff like that... You forgot Wayne's World and Bill and Ted's band Wyld Stally

I listed all of the band that were on the bill at the RIP concert in 1991 to point out that it was full of mainly grunge bands. I didn't say that they were all grunge bands, or imply that Spinal Tap were. I'm well aware of Spinal Tap. I find it telling that the only 80's rock band on the bill was joke band...than in itself says a lot....

You say you lived through that era, well, so did I and I've worked with people that were directly affected by the effect that grunge had on the music scene.

Question my knowledge all you want, I couldn't care less. There's no point having any form of discussion with you as you always think everyone else's opinions or points of view are wrong and refuse to listen to anything that may contradict what you believe.

[Thinny]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

Then why would it compete against Nirvana which basically started this whole discussion?

Nirvana were not yet huge mega stars, as you yourself have spent most of your last posts pointing out....

BUT the labels were investing all of their money into grunge bands (or pop/hiphop artists), not 80's style rock band and certainly not a Richie Sambora solo album....

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by Thinny

Smells Like Teen Spirit began to hit at radio in August 1991, by November it had been a top 10 single all over the world...they may not have taken over yet, but they were well on the way)

Lets Fact Check so we educate the people correctly. It wasn't as overnight as most people want to believe or how the Alternate Rock Magazines want to glamorize it all.

Billboard Charts:
Smells Like Teen Spirit Peaked at #6 on the Billboard Charts after 20 Weeks in January of 1992...

Wikipedia:
"Smells Like Teen Spirit was released to radio on August 27, 1991. On September 10, it was released as the lead single from Nevermind. The song did not initially chart, and sold well only in regions of the United States" (meaning Seattle)

"Many American Top 40 stations were reluctant to play the song in regular rotation, and restricted it to night-time play".

So again, it wasn't as overnight as most people want think... Unless 6 months is considered overnight?

I give Nirvana major props. They were the first to kick it all off and crossed over into mainstream... It still would have happened anyway, they were just the first.

Now fast forward a year later. By August / September 1992, it was all completely changed over. That's why KTF deserves major props.

In summary, Grunge didn't kill the 80's bands. 80's bands killed the 80's bands. Grunge was just other form of rock that filled the void. And as fast as it rolled in, was as fast as it rolled out... Now there is nothing... Rock N Roll is Dead!!!!

[Thinny]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

Lets Fact Check so we educate the people correctly. It wasn't as overnight as most people want to believe or how the Alternate Rock Magazines want to glamorize it all.

Billboard Charts:
Smells Like Teen Spirit Peaked at #6 on the Billboard Charts after 20 Weeks in January of 1992...

Wikipedia:
"Smells Like Teen Spirit was released to radio on August 27, 1991. On September 10, it was released as the lead single from Nevermind. The song did not initially chart, and sold well only in regions of the United States" (meaning Seattle)

"Many American Top 40 stations were reluctant to play the song in regular rotation, and restricted it to night-time play".

So again, it wasn't as overnight as most people want think... Unless 6 months is considered overnight?

I give Nirvana major props. They were the first to kick it all off and crossed over into mainstream... It still would have happened anyway, they were just the first.

Now fast forward a year later. By August / September 1992, it was all completely changed over. That's why KTF deserves major props.

In summary, Grunge didn't kill the 80's bands. 80's bands killed the 80's bands. Grunge was just other form of rock that filled the void. And as fast as it rolled in, was as fast as it rolled out... Now there is nothing... Rock N Roll is Dead!!!!

you do realise that there's more to the world than America right? As I've already pointed out Smells Like was a top 10 hit all over the world by November 1991. There was a hige buzz about Nirvana over the last half of 1991 which the labels were fill aware of. Sure it took longer in america because it's bigger - everything does! But it DID start to pick up airplay, and a fair amount, in 1991, in fact by November 1991 the album was already selling by the truck load in america and crawling up the billboard charts. MTV was already beginning to shift away from 80s rock by the latter parts on 1991. It may not have been overnight but it was pretty quick. However, what WAS pretty much over night was the labels changing their focus from 80s rock to grunge rock, as far as financing goes....and that's the point that you keep missing/ignoring....

Where do you think all those huge grunge bands with major labels came from in 1992? There were signed in 1991....

Everyone knew that 80s rock was on it's last legs and the labels were looking for the next big thing. They found it!

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by Thinny

BUT the labels were investing all of their money into grunge bands (or pop/hiphop artists), not 80's style rock band and certainly not a Richie Sambora solo album....

You keep repeating this and I never doubted any of that... I remember an interview with either Poison or Warrant where they went into the record company and their posters were down and Grunge band posters were up. That's how they figured it out...

But staying on point... Back to Stranger In This Town...

- When Ballad Of Youth hit radio, there was nothing Grunge related holding it back from becoming a hit. It was getting fair play but just never caught on as a single. As I initially stated, top 40 radio was still very 80's in August of 1991. Bryan Adams (maybe not a hair band) was all over radio that summer with Everything I Do I Do It For You

- The Record Company gave Richie 3 singles and videos. How is that not being supportive?

Record Companies look for positive trends. It had none... They probably would have pulled the plug earlier if it didn't have the Bon Jovi name attached to it.

It's a brilliant album just wasn't radio friendly...

I thought Miracle from Jon's Solo album was / is brilliant. Great Song, Great Video, Jeff Beck playing guitar, the follow-up to Blaze Of Glory which was beyond huge, Jon is in his prime, the timing was perfect... The song peaked at #12 and fell off a week later.

The competition was crazy in the 80's... It wasn't just Hair Bands...Talk about a group of people in their prime

George Michael
Michael Jackson
Whitney Houston
Mariah Carry
It's an endless list of serious contenders

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by Thinny

you do realise that there's more to the world than America right? As I've already pointed out Smells Like was a top 10 hit all over the world by November 1991. There was a hige buzz about Nirvana over the last half of 1991 which the labels were fill aware of. Sure it took longer in america because it's bigger - everything does! But it DID start to pick up airplay, and a fair amount, in 1991, in fact by November 1991 the album was already selling by the truck load in america and crawling up the billboard charts. MTV was already beginning to shift away from 80s rock by the latter parts on 1991. It may not have been overnight but it was pretty quick. However, what WAS pretty much over night was the labels changing their focus from 80s rock to grunge rock, as far as financing goes....and that's the point that you keep missing/ignoring....

Where do you think all those huge grunge bands with major labels came from in 1992? There were signed in 1991....

Everyone knew that 80s rock was on it's last legs and the labels were looking for the next big thing. They found it!

Dude, are you reading my posts? You are saying everything I'm saying... I'm just proving support that Stranger In This Town was not impacted by Nirvana and that it got record label support. That's it!!!

We are talking about America... And we are talking about Mainstream rock in America. Stop diverting.

I grew up in America during the time Stranger In This Town was released and I'm telling you that Nirvana didn't effect it and it got record label support!!! End Of Discussion!!!!

[Thinny]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

You keep repeating this and I never doubted any of that... I remember an interview with either Poison or Warrant where they went into the record company and their posters were down and Grunge band posters were up. That's how they figured it out...

But that's the whole thing you were arguing against! All I initially said was that the labels stopped funding the 80s bands in 1991 and you said I was wrong! That's where all this started!!!!!! I give up!

First single came out in August 1991 and I agree that it's lack of success had little to do with grunge. It was just treated like any other solo single from a guitar player form a rock band. No one really expected it to light up the charts, I don't think!

Of course the label wanted to make some money back. They already had some plans for Stranger, I'm sure, and let them continue, but just releasing songs to radio doesn't really equal massive support. It was cheap and easy to put promo discs out there, but to really push for them to get airplay...they didn't do that.

I know that some bands around this time would fund the filming of music videos their selves, even those signed to major labels. I wouldn't be surprised if Richie did this also.

The label didn't finance the tour. The TV appearances etc, were probably arranged through Richie's existing contacts/management rather than the label. Doc was still very good and this kind of stuff back then.

[Captain_jovi]

If Richie was funding the tour then the label support wasn't all that great. Wasn't this from a time that labels funded the tour and the album promotion or am I remembering that?