[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by Walleris

What a different band and different Jon that was... The fact that it was so recent is perhaps what makes me unlikely to ever accept the live Bon Jovi of 2017

Great remaster as always Dominik!

2011 is 6 years ago which is a lifetime for some bands... Judging a singer in his late 40s to mid 50's isn't a fair comparison... Since then, there has been 3 albums and 3 tours...

A Bon Jovi without Richie and New Members is a solo band... Until Richie is back, this is just a JBJ solo band featuring Dave and Tico. I'm glad it is somewhat different... It's not what is was but it's not horrible either...

Sent from my HTCD160LVW using Tapatalk

[Captmorgs]

Originally Posted by kleman

This is gold....Jon's voice was amazing back then

So great when he sprinkled in Shot Through The Heart and Roulette on the those early Circle tour sets. He vowed to continue throughout the tour, but it didn't last.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Walleris]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

2011 is 6 years ago which is a lifetime for some bands... Judging a singer in his late 40s to mid 50's isn't a fair comparison... Since then, there has been 3 albums and 3 tours...

Completely disagree.

It's unfair to judge a singer in his 20s vs. 50s, but late 40s to mid 50s is totally fair. Most singers are expected to sound the same at that age span. And this is not a place for the "just because Steven Tyler or Bruce Springsteen does it, doesn't mean that Jon should be able to..." argument, because I'm not talking about general decline over the course of a career, but specifically a sharp decline so late a career, which I cannot think of another example. Every rock singer I can think of sounded the same at 55 as they did at 49. Even those who have generally declined significantly and don't sound the same as the they did in their prime (e.g. Roger Daltrey, Paul McCartney, Robert Plant, Joe Elliot, Bob Dylan, James Hetfield just name a few) still managed to pretty much the same for the later part of their careers. I would assume it's because over the decades of abuse they finally learned how to take care of what is left of their instrument.

Hence, it could've totally been expected that a seasoned singer like Jon who at the time had sounded about the same since 2007 (in fact, had actually gained confidence in his upper register with each passing year) would maintain most of his voice for the rest of his career, because that's what his peers have been able to do.

Please (anyone) prove me wrong by giving some singers who declined rapidly in that age, because I couldn't think of one myself and I'm quite a geek on singers/vocals. I'm not being a dick here, I'm genuinely interested if there is really a case for a late-career vocal decline that would be comparable to Jon's.

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by Walleris

Completely disagree.

It's unfair to judge a singer in his 20s vs. 50s, but late 40s to mid 50s is totally fair. Most singers are expected to sound the same at that age span. And this is not a place for the "just because Steven Tyler or Bruce Springsteen does it, doesn't mean that Jon should be able to..." argument, because I'm not talking about general decline over the course of a career, but specifically a sharp decline so late a career, which I cannot think of another example. Every rock singer I can think of sounded the same at 55 as they did at 49. Even those who have generally declined significantly and don't sound the same as the they did in their prime (e.g. Roger Daltrey, Paul McCartney, Robert Plant, Joe Elliot, Bob Dylan, James Hetfield just name a few) still managed to pretty much the same for the later part of their careers. I would assume it's because over the decades of abuse they finally learned how to take care of what is left of their instrument.

Hence, it could've totally been expected that a seasoned singer like Jon who had sounded about the same since 2007 (in fact, had actually gained confidence in his upper register) would maintain most of his voice for the rest of his career, because that's what his peers have been able to do.

Please (anyone) prove me wrong by giving some singers who declined rapidly in that age, because I couldn't think of one myself and I'm quite a geek on singers/vocals. I'm not being a dick here, I'm genuinely interested if there is really a case for a late-career vocal decline that would be comparable to Jon's.

YouTube search Jon's IEM 2011 and listen to his vocals without Richie... Not too far off from today...

Sent from my HTCD160LVW using Tapatalk

[Walleris]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

YouTube search Jon's IEM 2011 and listen to his vocals without Richie... Not too far off from today...

Sent from my HTCD160LVW using Tapatalk

Completely false.

I know you're talking about the Vancouver 2011 show which: 1) featured Richie; and 2) was head and shoulders above what he's singing now. Remember, he attempted Something To Believe In at that show and sounded pretty good except for a couple of bum notes.

But that previous post of mine was more intended to other members, as you have clearly shown your lack of interest in Jon's vocal development in this board on numerous occasions. Which is totally fine, it's just that I don't think you should be making claims about how he is "not too far off", because a more accurate description of your stance would be "I just don't care about how he sounds".

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by Walleris

Completely false.

I know you're talking about the Vancouver 2011 show which: 1) featured Richie; and 2) was head and shoulders above what he's singing now. Remember, he attempted Something To Believe In at that show and sounded pretty good except for a couple of bum notes.

But that previous post of mine was more intended to other members, as you have clearly shown your lack of interest in Jon's vocal development in this board on numerous occasions. Which is totally fine, it's just that I don't think you should be making claims about how he is "not too far off", because a more accurate description of your stance would be "I just don't care about how he sounds".

It's Jon's IEM so it's mainly just Jon's vocal. Yes, he sounded better in 2011 but to say he had a 'golden voice' is just bullshit... He had his moments and his songs but he still suffered a decline from the last tour in 2008.. The Circle tour turned into the GHs tour so by that time, Jon was singing at his best from that time period... but someone should not be shocked at the voice we have today after seeing the vocal decline we've been seeing since 1996/1997... and yes, 6 years is a lifetime... it's the These Days tour to the Bounce tour...

[Walleris]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

It's Jon's IEM so it's mainly just Jon's vocal. Yes, he sounded better in 2011 but to say he had a 'golden voice' is just bullshit... He had his moments and his songs but he still suffered a decline from the last tour in 2008.. The Circle tour turned into the GHs tour so by that time, Jon was singing at his best from that time period... but someone should not be shocked at the voice we have today after seeing the vocal decline we've been seeing since 1996/1997... and yes, 6 years is a lifetime... it's the These Days tour to the Bounce tour...

1. I did not make a "golden voice" claim, it was another member. I acknowledged that he had a substantial decline, much like many singers
2. Jon was 34 on These Days tour which is considered prime years for any singer and thus is totally fair for him not to sound the same on the Bounce tour; so again, not comparable to the 2011-2017 downward spiral because of examples I pointed out.

But otherwise nice job completely ignoring my arguments from 2 posts ago. Among long-time Jovitalk members, very few can match this ability of yours.

[BJFan99]

A great concert from Jon's 1997 solo tour:

https://youtu.be/Z9VtJBwM3-E

Is it just me, or did Bobby play the BJ solos better with the Big Dogs than with the "real" band? Here, he doesn't f*** up nearly as often as I thought he would. Also, the setlist is awesome! Jon's voice is still amazing (not too far off '94-'95) and the crowd is eating from the palm of his hands throughout the show. Damn, do I wish I was around back then... but unfortunately, I was born in 1999. Thank Chad Hurley, Steve Chen and Jawed Karim for YouTube!

However, it's just laughable when someone makes a point in the comment section about Jon's voice being shot nowadays and some women think it's disrespectful for him. Here's one of the replies the comment got:

"He's still hot as hell to watch now, so for us girls and women it's perfectly fine... he still spreads sexiness and his voice is sexy as hell, who gives a f*** if he doesn't reach high notes today...".

Another lady replies: "Shut up, Jon still sounds amazing, you're just a f***ing troll".

Backstagers, maybe? It's ridiculous that there still are women into JBJ/BJ only for his looks. Actually, if (only) Jon gained 40 pounds and got bald, I think about 60% of his female fans would "magically disappear"... And he certainly does NOT sound amazing anymore!

PS. The "backyard BBQ" gig from Myrtle Beach '97 is great, too:

https://youtu.be/S9IARocbQAA

As well as the acoustic show from Mexico:

https://youtu.be/vbo_xIi5v2k

Bloody hell, I miss Jon's voice...

[Eveline]

Be careful with such bold statements, my friend. When I hinted at the phenomenon myself, I was set on fire

[BJFan99]

Originally Posted by Eveline

Be careful with such bold statements, my friend. When I hinted at the phenomenon myself, I was set on fire

I'm trying to be as careful as I can, but for me, (Jon) Bon Jovi has always been about the music and overall stage charisma... and, yes, the voice. I don't understand how anyone could be a "fan" of any artist only for his/her physical appearance. For example, Britney Spears is hotter than hell, but I couldn't care less about her dull, meaningless music. Again, this is just my opinion.

Easily the most ridiculous statement I've ever seen on YouTube is one where a woman commented the following: "I'd love to see Bon Jovi in concert 'cause Jon is so handsome and sexy...". I mean, WTF??? I'm pretty sure this is the reason BJ/JBJ has never been the critics' favorite. The guy is just a pretty boy for the most already, and these kinds of statements only make the (VERY narrow) impression stronger. I'm afraid to say that Jon being criminally underrated as a singer (not anymore, but in the past) has a lot to do with the overall impression the general public has of him. For about 60% of the casuals, JBJ is a 80s poodle rock star with a pretty face and a few radio hits (Prayer, Bad Name, Wanted, IML) behind him. For us *real* fans, he's an epic singer (well, until 2012...), a fabulous songwriter and one of the greatest live performers of all time.