Richie and the songwriting

DevilsSon · #21 02-25-2014, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

Desmond Child was heavily involved with Alice's writing on the entire album Trash. He was also the one who produced it. Obie was the Engineer and worked on the album in Jon's home studio. Jon and Richie are songwriters for Hell Is Living Without You. Jon also wrote the Ballad Of Alice Cooper which was an unreleased demo (Jon did a live version of it for a radio station). Jon is on backing vocals and Richie is on guitar for a few other songs too (Richie could be referring to guitar writing credits too).

Although Desmond is credited as the main songwriter, I have a feeling that some of those songs were recycled from New Jersey (and other artists albums that he worked with like Aerosmith). (The second single off the album is "Bed Of Nails" although an unrelated coincidence)

Like I stated earlier, it's difficult to read the lyrics and pick them apart as to what was Desmond's and / or Jon & Richie's but considering how stacked New Jersey was, I seriously doubt Bon Jovi would demo songs written by other artists. They must have had their pens involved with House Of Fire somehow during that period. I would love for someone to ask Jon or Richie that question. You'd probably get a more honest and direct answer from Richie. Edit: Jon could have demoed it for Alice as a favor to Desmond. Maybe he helped him work out an arangement or something like that. We all assume it was for NJ but it could have really been for Trash all along.

Anyway, I think this was basically a little Desmond project that Jon and Richie had a lot of small bits of feedback to contribute but Desmond basically got all the writing credits.

"Poison" was the only real hit off the album but I guess any single released that charts in the billboard top 100 could be considered a hit.

House of Fire credited as Alice, Joan Jett and Desmond Child. Not Child only.
Richie is only credited to play guitar on Hell is Living Without You. Even there - I think he shares credits with Steve Lukather.

Iceman · #22 02-25-2014, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

Jon also wrote the Ballad Of Alice Cooper which was an unreleased demo (Jon did a live version of it for a radio station).

I really think "Ballad of Alice Cooper" is a joke. It's just something Jon threw together in a radio interview, he even laughs when playing it. Just Alice Cooper song titles and a reference to a movie/song Alice Doesn't Live Here Any More. It's not even a song, it was just named by some fan.

Does anyone have the full broadcast? I'm sure it would shed some light on this.

Quote:

Jon is on backing vocals and Richie is on guitar for a few other songs too (Richie could be referring to guitar writing credits too).

You don't get credits for writing guitar parts.

Quote:

Although Desmond is credited as the main songwriter, I have a feeling that some of those songs were recycled from New Jersey (and other artists albums that he worked with like Aerosmith). (The second single off the album is "Bed Of Nails" although an unrelated coincidence)

Desmond is more than capable of writing by himself, and he writes better songs than Jon or Richie. Why would he NOT credit Jon or Richie if they'd written anything?

Quote:

I seriously doubt Bon Jovi would demo songs written by other artists.

Why not? It's not the first time Jon has taken someone else's song and added his own name to it.

Quote:

Edit: Jon could have demoed it for Alice as a favor to Desmond. Maybe he helped him work out an arangement or something like that. We all assume it was for NJ but it could have really been for Trash all along.

This a LOT more likely scenario.

Quote:

"Poison" was the only real hit off the album but I guess any single released that charts in the billboard top 100 could be considered a hit.

Bed Of Nails was #20 on Billboard Top 100, I'd call that a hit. And House Of Fire and Only My Heart Talking charted as well.

Ice

Rdkopper · #23 02-25-2014, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

I really think "Ballad of Alice Cooper" is a joke. It's just something Jon threw together in a radio interview, he even laughs when playing it. Just Alice Cooper song titles and a reference to a movie/song Alice Doesn't Live Here Any More. It's not even a song, it was just named by some fan.

Does anyone have the full broadcast? I'm sure it would shed some light on this.

You don't get credits for writing guitar parts.

Desmond is more than capable of writing by himself, and he writes better songs than Jon or Richie. Why would he NOT credit Jon or Richie if they'd written anything?

Why not? It's not the first time Jon has taken someone else's song and added his own name to it.

This a LOT more likely scenario.

Bed Of Nails was #20 on Billboard Top 100, I'd call that a hit. And House Of Fire and Only My Heart Talking charted as well.

Ice

All good points. I was more or less trying to brain storm ideas as to why Richie would say what he said. I do think Jon and Richie had more input than what was credited on the album though.

One thing I completely disagree with though is saying that the Ballad Of Alice Copper (Alice's Doesn't Live Here Anymore) was a joke. It's a joke the way Jon is singing it in Alice's voice but these guys don't write anything as a joke. There are actually some really great lyrics that make up that one verse and then Jon tells the DJ "the song goes on like that". I think the little chuckle between them is a combination of Jon's Alice voice and the DJ giving Jon props on the writing (like he's amazed on how good it was)

Yes, the song isn't named and some fan made it up, but whatever the actual name is, it was a completed song written for or about Alice, hence the voice Jon sings it in. Considering the time, I'd bet it was for Alice's album and if someone had the completed interview, there was probably a question to Jon about it. Which could actually shed some more light about it. Like I stated earlier, I think Jon and Richie were a lot more involved with Alice's record then noted on the album. This was also when Jon was playing talent scout and trying to be a record executive.

Another awesome choice to include on the New Box Set by the way. Hear Jon's version below....

JON BON JOVI - THE BALLAD OF ALICE COOPER (LIVE,...

DevilsSon · #24 02-25-2014, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

One thing I completely disagree with though is saying that the Ballad Of Alice Copper (Alice's Doesn't Live Here Anymore) was a joke. It's a joke the way Jon is singing it in Alice's voice but these guys don't write anything as a joke. There are actually some really great lyrics that make up that one verse and then Jon tells the DJ "the song goes on like that". I think the little chuckle between them is a combination of Jon's Alice voice and the DJ giving Jon props on the writing (like he's amazed on how good it was)

Yup - that's correct. There's an interview with Alice Cooper where he mentions the song and says that Jon wrote it for him to record to which he said 'Come on man, I can't sing a song about myself. You do it'. And ever since they meet, Alice asks him when he will finally record it.

When Jon played it on that radio show, this article with Alice had been published already.

And don't ask me why I know all this crap. Alice is my all time favourite front-man. His presence is magnificent even now. True rock god.

Iceman · #25 02-25-2014, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Yup - that's correct. There's an interview with Alice Cooper where he mentions the song and says that Jon wrote it for him to record to which he said 'Come on man, I can't sing a song about myself. You do it'. And ever since they meet, Alice asks him when he will finally record it.

When Jon played it on that radio show, this article with Alice had been published already.

And don't ask me why I know all this crap. Alice is my all time favourite front-man. His presence is magnificent even now. True rock god.

I've only ever seen fan quotes, nothing official anywhere. If anyone has the Rockline (the whole thing) or any not-fan-based info on the song, I'd like to see it.

Ice

Kathleen · #26 02-25-2014, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Does anyone have the full broadcast? I'm sure it would shed some light on this.

Ice

I'm pretty sure I do - just gotta find it.

DevilsSon · #27 02-26-2014, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

I've only ever seen fan quotes, nothing official anywhere. If anyone has the Rockline (the whole thing) or any not-fan-based info on the song, I'd like to see it.

Ice

There you go, quote from the Alice interview:

Quote:

"And every time I see Jon, he gives me one of these 'Hey, how's the song doin'?' looks and I go...(catches his breath). And it really is a good song! But you know the reason why I can't do it? 'Cause he's talking about me and I really can't do that! I told Jon, 'Jon, it's such a great song, you do it about me, but it's hard for me to sing The Ballad Of Alice Cooper about myself!' We laugh about it every time I talk to him - and for the rest of my life, every time I see him, he's going to ask me when I'm going to do that song!"

http://www.alicecooperechive.com/art...cleList=910700

Rumen · #28 02-26-2014, 01:29 AM

Reading that article again was a real blast from the past:

Quote:

"Actually I love guitar players. I like to hear them and give them a lot of leeway. If I hear somebody playing something that's good I say, 'Hey, play an extra three minutes of that'. I will always be the guy that goes in and listens to the guitar player. I used to play rhythm guitar, but there were so many good guitar players around that I thought, 'why am I even holding this thing? I might as well have a monkey wrench in my hand.'

Davey Johnstone (guitarist with Elton John) was one of those great players who could play anything. I think if I were going to pick two guitar players that I was going to keep for the rest of my life, it would be Richie Sambora and Davey Johnstone. Davey's one of the great road guys of all time. He will probably still be on the road thirty years from now. Richie is one of those guys who can play anything you say; he can play Jimi Hendrix, he can play George Harrison and he can play his own style."

Becky · #29 02-26-2014, 01:31 AM

I have the full Rockline interview. I'll see if I can find it.... and if I can find a cassette player to listen to it with.

Kathleen · #30 02-26-2014, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Becky

I have the full Rockline interview. I'll see if I can find it.... and if I can find a cassette player to listen to it with.

I think I have it digitally, but so far I can't find it. Still digging. I probably have a tape of it somewhere too but I'm pretty sure I have transferred all the tapes.

Richie and the songwriting

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