Slippery When Wet - 25th Anniversery...

Marc, all due respect, but I haven't started drinking any Kool Aid, my opnions on everything are basically in line with where they were when we saw the JBJ solo show. I am VERY honest in my criticisms, and always have been. I don't know exactly where you're major change came from (especially on the setlists, as back then you actually cut them a lot more slack than I did), and obviously it's your right to have it, and I still love having discussions with you. However, where you and I seem to disconnect comes from the bands you compare Bon Jovi to. Bon Jovi are A SINGLES DRIVEN COMMERCIAL BAND, and always have been a SINGLES DRIVEN COMMERCIAL BAND. Yes, we as die hards love the back wall tracks, and can discuss them for hours. However, the bottom line is that this band is 100% build on the hit singles, and being a commercial band. Bands like Pearl Jam and the Black Crowes ARE NOT, and can do things that appeal to their specific audience. I mean honestly, to ask (as you have in the past) why Jovi can't do what the Crowes do and play 35 different songs a night is totally missing the point of what kind of band Bon Jovi are, and ALWAYS have been. It's what they set out to be in 1984, it's what they became in 1986, and it's what they strived to maintain in the 25 years since then. it is perfectly right for you to offer up criticisms, but to suggest that a commercial band like Bon Jovi try and do what quasi cult-status bands do is blind to what kind of band they've always been.

bri - totally agree and thats why i left you out of that and noted it and i love having discussions with you - you havent really changed your opinions much so that was more for seb...

i do konw you both, and you both know im not a total spaz, so you both dont have to keep repeating the fact that they are not like the bc and pj. i get that i really do - when i compare setlists it is to make a point - that point being that they can in fact play the 10-15 songs they have do and then switch around the others. this marketing strategy you guys seem to be referring to about hit singles...when was the last time they had a hit single...seriously....i get what you mean - all i am saying is that what i think you guys should focus on is that they are a hit making machine - they are a money making machine - i think that is what is starting to get to me as i peel it back more and more -

i respect that as a businessman but there are way to accomplish both...bon jovi most certainly can change up their setlists much more and not lose any casuals - no casuals know something for the pain, captain crash, radio etc....on and on and they would have another revenue stream selling concerts etc by changing setlist while keeping the die hards happier

i was completely serious about my template post for the anniversary album. there is no reason at all jovi couldnt do EXACTLY what they did, down to offering different version for diff fans...

did you even read it? what exactly couldnt jovi do?

quickly...
ok leave off the vinyl - or dont...
have bob rock remix it
add in a count basie holiday show ro hammerstien, well that was really nj but one of the great shows from 86 and please dont tell me they dont have any and if they dont i have some for them -
make a special ep with the first take or so of wanted, or some of the other demos we already have
wew know there are some vaulted songs we dont have or clean versions of demos we dont have - 5 or 6....thats all - but please nothing released already, i am so sick of paying for the same stuff 15 times i havent even bought GH..
or if hey have to, again, release slippery the videos in remastered 5.1 or something...
make a dvd of behind the scenes stuff - they have plenty -

basically spend some money - have somebody care about it for 3 months...and release something that matters and shows respect and that you care...

not hard...stop letting off the hook bc they are a commercial band - please...they are a commercial band so they have A LOT more at their disposable than a touring band does...its coming down to pure laziness and cash grabbing and its getting worse and worse

why give them such a pass...somebody has to keep them honest - if its not the diehards, its over - you have a responsibility here not to roll with the masses - where are the diehards!!!!


please let me know when the circle tour starts...

Must have been while you were kissing him.

It has nothing to do with the last time they had a hit, it has to with the fact that the hit singles are what define their career. LOAP, YGLABN, Bad Rx, IBTFY, WDOA, BOR, ALW, IML, and etc. We can opine over These Days and Dry County until the cows come home, they will never be the overall cultural definers of Bon Jovi, because they are a singles band.

All band's are money-making machines, don't think they're not. Pearl Jam, while very virtuous, knew that they had enough of a touring band/cult like/audiophile/vinyl loving following, who could financially support it's existence. Bon Jovi has (I'm talking about in the grand scheme) does not have that type of following. Their casual following like the hits, want the hits, and a majority of them probably wouldn't drop $70.00 to $100.00 on Bon Jovi. Hell, go look at the sales numbers for the Box Set.

a - totally agree - all bands are money making machine - even the crowes institiued vip tix for their 3k seat shows....and pj just last night doubled the price of their fan club from 20 to 40 oooh, i know, but the big part of their fan club is your ticket number and you can still keep that and get digital version of the other stuff for 20 so still very cool and certainly jovi could do all of that and make gazzillions...maybe not quadrillion gazzilions...but i cant get on them for that too much i guess...a little though

b - thats a good point about the box set - im assuming it didnt get a lot of sales by your point - i dont really know - though each one sold counts as 4 i think...actually its surprising they didnt even realease a single for that - i have to give them credit - i think they may have actually done that for the fans (and to show the world how prolific they are) but they did and thats actually pretty cool

c - there were 4 levels to the pj box set - lots of casuals would buy the lowest version of slippery esp if remixed by bob rock, but maybe youre right although we will prob never know bc of the overswamping of versions and updates already released - though i support any 5.1 remix...they just should have made a bigger deal of it...

i stand by my point - they could have released a special package (which pj will be doing for every album as it turns 20) and make some money and make every level of fan happy from casual to diehard - 4 levels is a great idea and everybody gets to play -

of course pj hasnt pillaged their fans with multiple versions of the same album 15x already...

my peace

[QUOTE=Crushgen24/88;1034235]It has nothing to do with the last time they had a hit, it has to with the fact that the hit singles are what define their career. LOAP, YGLABN, Bad Rx, IBTFY, WDOA, BOR, ALW, IML, and etc. We can opine over These Days and Dry County until the cows come home, they will never be the overall cultural definers of Bon Jovi, because they are a singles band.

But wasn't Pearl Jam's career also built on some pretty big singles? "Alive", "Jeremy", "Go", "Daughter" etc. Sure, they are not as pop based as Bon Jovi are, but in the early 90's they were pretty much the biggest rock band in the world.
I think Pearl Jam has the "casual" set of fans in the same way that Bon Jovi does. In fact, I think I am one. Loved their first three albums but haven't really bothered with anything since.
A Box Set like the one being proposed for "Slippery" is not one that casual fans will buy, and probably won't be a huge money making venture. It is something for the diehard fans, a nice way of celebrating what is a hugely influential and landmark album. And although Bon Jovi did build a career on a big pop following who were just interested in the "hit" singles, I don't think you can underestimate the loyal, diehard fanbase that they also have. Their career would have finished at the end of the 80's without them.

If Bon Jovi did a 'Pearl Jam' I bet the price would be the same of around £80 which just isn't worth it.

yes - i do need to relax a little im just bumming lately bc i care a lot and am not happy with bonjovi land....

good points on the last 2 posts....i think that would have been a great way to do it back before they did it so many times already...

i really like the tiered offering - and esp with digital downloads these days they could combine it with other stuff - but yeah there are a lot of people that would buy something that was actually SOMETHING...that was my main point....

^That would be pretty killer. Would love a good quality version of Lonely Is The Night.