The Bounce Album?

Speaking purely from the perspective of complexity of musical composition, Bounce probably is at the low end of the scale when it comes to Bon Jovi albums. HOWEVER, the great thing about music is that the feeling you get from it and the connection you have with it are just as important, if not more important, than the technical complexity

OT: Bounce is an awfull album but has some good songs on it, the ones missing on/that were lacking on Crush.... imo.

It misses flow like someone else said on this thread.

I don't like Crush, I don't like Bounce but togheter they make a really good album IMO. Production-wise its kinda fits and it can give a really good flow. I've made a album like that on my ipod and it really works, its actually a favourite so-called 'album' of mine.

Just something I made up right now, lots of good combinations tho...

1. Undivided
2. Bounce
3. Everyday
4. Say it isn't so
5. The distance
6. Captainc crash & the beauty queen from Mars
7. Right side from wrong
8. Next 100 years
9. Hook me up
10. It's my life
11. Misunderstood
12. Two story town
13. One wild night

How can you be so thick that you don't understand that THAT is EXACTLY what "pushing your opinion on others" means.

Plus, you've insulted many people (you even called all European "elitist", even though you don't know what the word means...) by calling them retards etc. for not liking (!!!!) the same things you do.

I call that naive, childish and stupid.

You might like Bounce. Others don't. And everyone is as right as you are, because it's all subjective. But once you start calling others stupid or retarded because of their opinons, you are VERY wrong. Not to mention being idiotic.



I agree 100%.


You need to learn to understand irony.

I agree 100%.

Ice

I can't agree with your comments about Hook Me Up. I can see the point you're making, and i do agree Bounce is an overproduced album.

I am not pushing any opinion here. I don't ask people to agree, or disagree. All I am doing is stating my thoughts. And I've made so many analogies that I get sick of it.

Now I was just about to start drafting an argumentative essay again, however, just think about it: Britney Spears vs. Led Zeppelin. What is subjective about that? Even if you completely hate Led Zeppelin, anyone in his or her right mind will tell you that Led Zeppelin are a BETTER band/act/musician than Britney Spears. It's not subjective. It's pure FACT.

Does it mean people can't prefer Britney Spears? Hell no, of course they can. That is the subjective part of it, liking something more than something else because of no logical reason, because of connections, because of some kind of emotions, for memories, and what not.
All of these are fair arguments. But when you look at an album like Bounce and state it's the BEST because there's so many memories from the time it came out, you make a qualitative statement, comparing it automatically to the rest of Bon Jovi's catalogue, but basing it on NON-MUSICAL reasons. However, what you don't see is that it is NOT a question of QUALITY but one of TASTE. And while Quality can be measured, TASTE can only be classified.

I guess we both agree that there is GOOD TASTE and there is BAD TASTE. If you think it's not as clear cut, look at domains other than music and then you realize it's just the same with music. Once again, Bounce is crap, but hey, if you like it, fair enough, bad taste I guess or sentimental connections. Cause if you look at musically qualitative arguments to support that statement, you'll have a hard time finding any.

Oh?
Nope, not a fact. An opinion. There are no facts in art. It's ALL subjective, no matter how hard you might want to think otherwise.

If you want to state something as a fact, you have to be able to measure it using some scientific method. How do you measure music?

You can't. It's a matter of opinion, not a fact.

Ice

It's refreshing to read such a sensible and accurate post. I agree 100% Ice.

How is that pushing an opinion? For example, I think that you are a moron for various reasons which I have made quite clear in past discussions. Am I not entitled to this opinion? How is it different from the one you cited above and how is it me trying to impose it onto other people?

Have you even read what I wrote before? The whole distinction between quality and taste?And you put a simple statement there, without even remotely trying to back it up, in order to what?

And why people slice other people's posts I won't understand. What I said was valid in its entity (at least paragraph wise), not in picking single sentences. Why am I surprised though?

[/QUOTE]

So you have to measure it scientifically in other to qualify it? You do realize that not even everything in science can be measured, still it is scientific.
You did, presumably, hear of QUALITATIVE RESEARCH which lies at the core of plenty of scientific disciplines. That's exactly what it does. Just because your limited imagination doesn't allow you to see how music can be measured in terms of quality, doesn't mean it isn't or shouldn't be possible.

Ever heard of a guy called Nietzsche? Amongst others, he was a nihilist...but some of his texts could easily set the standards for qualitative analysis of music. Just in case you are curious.

And also, why I am still arguing with a limited guy like you, after years and years in which you haven't evolved at all, after years and years of having the exact same opinions and views on things, I won't understand. It's just a waste. At least it shows my limits. I can't resist temptation after all. And I like arguing with fools, although, as somebody nicely put it, people outside might not tell the difference.

Yea i agree too. So if we take Steve Reich or Philip Glass, American contemporary Composers. Music characterised by simple rhythms, simple elaborate structures, repetetive melody and basic harmony. Because this is simple music does that mean that its not as musically valuable as the work of Beethoven? A greater degree of musical complexity, does no way in hell mean better music, nor is it a FACT that it makes better music. As Ice said, its Subjective.

You're trying to influence people by trying to make them feel inferior for their opinions by calling them childish names. Tells a lot about you, though.

I read what you wrote, it just doesn't make sense. There is no "quality" in music, unless you're discussing it's technical aspects; things like how many notes per second someone can play or what is the frequency range of certain recording. There is no quality in, for example, compositions.

Just because you can't quote people doesn't mean I shouldn't do that. I took the parts from your post that I answered to as I did with others. No need to post multiple messages when you can do with one. And, I didn't splice your quotes at all, just removed part that had no effect on the matter at hand.

You're wrong. Everything considered a fact, a scientific fact (there are no other kind), have to be measured by scientific method.

Qualitative research isn't science and it doesn't create facts. It creates theories and assumptions. Those theories need to be proven by scientific methods, in other words, measured somehow.

Qualitative research would, for example, come to the conclusion that all people speak Chinese, because most of the people on Earth speak it. Is thata fact?

Music cannot be measured.

Nietzsche wasn't a scientist, he was philosopher. He said,for example, that people always thrive for superiority; political, moral etc. Much like you're trying to do by using your supposed intellect to be superior in regards to others here. Too bad it isn't working.

Nietzsche also said Darwin was wrong. Not much of a scientist, was he?

You always retort to insults when you run out of arguments. So, look who's talking.

As to my opinions or limitations, you have no idea about any of it. You don't know me and you never will. You don't know my views about anything, neither do you know my opinions. You only know what I've said here. And that is that you shouldn't forcefeed your opinions onto others and that there is no way to measure music to justify your childish claims that some music is factually better than some other.

You're the one who needs to grow up and evolve. You have been trying for years to tell people what they should like and what they shouldn't. You're trying to tell people that some music or arts is better than some other, when, in fact, you're talking about opinions and opinions only. No matter which philosopher you try to drag in to "defend" you.

And there you go insulting people again. In classic arguments (dialectics) that was a sure-fire way to lose the argument.

Let's see what kind of Chewbacca-defense you pull now.

Ice