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  #231  
Old 10-13-2018, 03:24 AM
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YOVANAfromPeru YOVANAfromPeru is offline
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Originally Posted by JackieBlue View Post
I have mixed feelings about Because We Can. I like the core of it; I just don't like the title or the bridge.

The verses take me back to Tommy and Gina. I'd like it for that, if nothing else. Except for the title at the end, I also like the chorus. There's a strong statement of self-respect in the desire to be seen as something special; as more than just "another" in a long line of something that gets lost in the crowd. Like, "I'm better than that; so I deserve better than that."

I don't wanna be another wave in the ocean;
I am a rock; not just another grain of sand.
I wanna be the one you call to when you need a shoulder.
I ain't a soldier; but I'm here to take a stand.


Unfortunately, I can't see how "because we can" has anything to do with what was said before it (verse or chorus). IMO, it sounds like it just got tagged onto the end to try and turn an otherwise good song into another "power of we" statement; and the repetition of "we can" in the bridge only reinforces that opinion.

JBJ has say that the whole idea of Because We Can was because in his mind he already could see the signs saying:
"BON JOVI
Because We Can"
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  #232  
Old 10-13-2018, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by YOVANAfromPeru View Post
JBJ has say that the whole idea of Because We Can was because in his mind he already could see the signs saying:
"BON JOVI
Because We Can"
*smh* That's a worse reason than to make another "power of we" statement.

Oh, wait! Never mind...That IS another "power of we" statement! Just a different format. I love Jon; but i swear, sometimes he really needs to get over himself.
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  #233  
Old 10-13-2018, 07:12 AM
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I actually enjoyed Working Man when I first heard it on the album. The chorus has a punch than most of their other recent 'anthems' lack. And the opening Prayer-esque bass line was a nice touch I thought.

Live-wise, however, I felt it really suffered from dropping of the key. Transposing the key to make it easier a sing should be an exception not the rule, but Jon had developed a habit of doing it for every song, even those that would've been perfectly manageable in original tuning. I have no doubt that Circle-era Jon would've sounded just fine on it.

The choreography did not bother me actually, I always prefer some choreography than no choreography
This is an interesting point I'm trying to understand. I don't think it's a habit of doing it if it makes sense. Don't most bands who tune down half a step do it for the entirety of the show? Otherwise you're dealing with multiple guitar changes. Jon's voice couldn't handle an entire show in standard tuning and if half a step keeps him going, more power to it. Wouldn't be shocked if he pulled a Paul Stanley and went to D.
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  #234  
Old 10-13-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Walleris View Post
I actually enjoyed Working Man when I first heard it on the album. The chorus has a punch than most of their other recent 'anthems' lack. And the opening Prayer-esque bass line was a nice touch I thought.

Live-wise, however, I felt it really suffered from dropping of the key. Transposing the key to make it easier a sing should be an exception not the rule, but Jon had developed a habit of doing it for every song, even those that would've been perfectly manageable in original tuning. I have no doubt that Circle-era Jon would've sounded just fine on it.

The choreography did not bother me actually, I always prefer some choreography than no choreography
IMO, There are three main things that make or break a standard song... The Vocals, The Chorus, The Arrangement.

I think any song can be great if it contains a strong V C A.

Working Man lacks a solid chorus to start... It's the song that goes nowhere. Second, a solid singer could have brought that chorus up an octave and turned it into something... If you give someone like Adele or Lady Gaga the blue print to that song, they could blast that 'Working Mannnnnn' off... All you hear is Jon's flat 'Working Meeeeeen' which just breaks the song...

This has been the problem with most current songs and albums... Example: Lay Your Hands On Me is a top ten Bon Jovi song... The TLFR version is unlistenable... Why, it's the same song? Lack of vocal range and boring arrangement.

I've said multiple times in multiple posts that we are getting the TLFR versions of songs that might have been great if they were sung, arranged, and produced in the 80s and 90s... and I think all it takes is for Jon to spend a little more time in the studio to fix that.

I know Jon said that the vocals are the last thing he does and is worried about when he's in the studio... And there was a time when the vocals might have been the easiest part of the song... Jon had screams, rasps, passion, range like no other... He could throw those vocals down in one take and then have his engineer make some adjustments...Poof, instant perfection!!! That's all gone now... Sure, he sounds decent on albums now but it's just a TLFR vocal which is killing his current music..

Who Would You Die For is another example of how Jon can still deliver a great vocal... the 'I wanna know' rasp is a little taste of an old school Jon and something we all miss...

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  #235  
Old 10-13-2018, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain_jovi View Post
This is an interesting point I'm trying to understand. I don't think it's a habit of doing it if it makes sense. Don't most bands who tune down half a step do it for the entirety of the show? Otherwise you're dealing with multiple guitar changes. Jon's voice couldn't handle an entire show in standard tuning and if half a step keeps him going, more power to it. Wouldn't be shocked if he pulled a Paul Stanley and went to D.
From my experience of watching live shows, most bands either sing everything in original key or, most often, only tune down the songs that are most difficult to sing and sing most of the set in original key (Maroon 5, Adele, Bruce Springsteen, The Script, Metallica, Paul McCartney, Beyonce, Bryan Adams, Paramore, and many others). I don’t think for artists at this level it’s an issue to often switch instruments between songs given how large their touring crews are. Really, the only bands I know that do for (almost) the entire show are Bon Jovi, Def Leppard and Scorpions. Yet for some weird reason, Jon always plays We Got It Goin On, Any Other Day, I’m With You and perhaps a couple of others in original key as an exception.

I understand why Jon does it generally. If anything, maybe he should take it down another half step now. My point was that Working Man could’ve been one of those exceptions because Jon would’ve been easily able to pull it off.
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  #236  
Old 10-13-2018, 06:28 PM
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From my experience of watching live shows, most bands either sing everything in original key or, most often, only tune down the songs that are most difficult to sing and sing most of the set in original key (Maroon 5, Adele, Bruce Springsteen, The Script, Metallica, Paul McCartney, Beyonce, Bryan Adams, Paramore, and many others). I don’t think for artists at this level it’s an issue to often switch instruments between songs given how large their touring crews are. Really, the only bands I know that do for (almost) the entire show are Bon Jovi, Def Leppard and Scorpions. Yet for some weird reason, Jon always plays We Got It Goin On, Any Other Day, I’m With You and perhaps a couple of others in original key as an exception.

I understand why Jon does it generally. If anything, maybe he should take it down another half step now. My point was that Working Man could’ve been one of those exceptions because Jon would’ve been easily able to pull it off.
Gotcha. I think we've kind of had a discussion like this but I'm not sure who with. Is it possible those songs were recorded half a step down and no further changes were needed when played live? I'm With You for example starts with an Em chord and on both the studio and live versions you can hear that low E string. It would stand to reason they're not making exceptions live, they're making exceptions in the studio and keeping everything half a step down (minus a few of the new songs that go a full step below) live?

I think you're right, I may be wrong about bands tuning down half a step the entire show that might not be the norm. There a few Canadian bands that I know tune down for the length of the show but I'd have to look into it more.
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  #237  
Old 10-13-2018, 07:00 PM
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The first song that came to my mind is Teardrop, that one can be played on original key no doubt!!!

speaking of guitars I remembered JBJ talking about his Fender... "Fender for a number of reasons. I like the way I can get all the different tones just by changing the pickups, brighter or mellower, but most of all, it's nice and light and when you're doing a three-hour show it doesn't beat the hell out of you!"
Missing the Fender sound, just sayin’ -_-
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  #238  
Old 10-15-2018, 04:25 AM
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Missing the Fender sound, just sayin’ -_-
smh
https://twitter.com/TheRealPhilX/sta...81441372446721
the ESP Richie guitar never sounded great to me...

So BJ facebook posted again: "Subscribe to our YouTube channel to watch our videos as soon as they're uploaded."
So there will be more videos, kiddos
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  #239  
Old 10-15-2018, 06:53 PM
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It wouldn't sound as good if it's more than a full step or so in my opinion. It depends though in my opinion. The lower the deeper and lower it sounds obviously. I would still keep all songs half a step from original (Everything the same as for example let's say 2010 or something like that) and only lower certain parts of the song or certain words, etc.

If I made music I would keep everything half a step or just have them recorded in a suitable key from the beginning.

Weird thing is Jon once said that they also play their songs 1 BPM slower than original version cause it sounds better.. 1 BPM isn't noticeable I bet.
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  #240  
Old 10-15-2018, 07:12 PM
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Weird thing is Jon once said that they also play their songs 1 BPM slower than original version cause it sounds better.. 1 BPM isn't noticeable I bet.
The two issues are not related. BPMs have nothing to do with key.

When you speed up the tape, the key also increases (or vice versa), but when the band decides to play a song slower or faster, they only ask the drummer to make the adjustment and the rest just play along to it.

I'll Be There For You is played live substantially faster than the record, but it's still half-step down.
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