This left feels right is the best. . .

I suggest that you prove that I said anything related about pitch correction. You started to freak out in your response to me and started to twist things that I didn't say like a freaking son of a bitch. Oh, I'm glad that you're not a total dork that I expected you was and you study sound engineering. So, did they taught you of HOW TO NOT BE AN ASSHOLE and have a NORMAL conversation instead of trying to humiliate the other person? Oh, wait I guess that you skipped this class.

What? Did you see your friends response to me and you come and say shit about me? Dude, he twisted things that I never ever said and acted like a son of a bitch and you are here defending the guy? Come on...

Quite like these technical discussions as I know less than nothing about them so its good to hear these viewpoints.

Any decent examples to illustrate these points where its obvious pitch has been changed too much etc? (Not necessarily BJ)

Again, I quote you:
YOU talk about being able to sing in the right pitch with using compression and you're wrong.

And I didn't attack you, I just said I'm getting of tired with people guessing and making shit up, like you did. Not sure if it's a problem with your English or not, but either way, it's you that's acting like a dick here.

Ice

Nothing comes to mind right now, but I can make a few Google searches... The most obvious ones would be the (intentional) vocoder effects like the ones in Cher's I Believe, but there are unintentional ones as well. Let me see if I can dig some up.

Ice

Here's a nice list: http://www.hometracked.com/2008/02/0...c-10-examples/

Although some of those have to be intentional, they're so bad. Usually it's a lot easier to hear the pitch correction in the slides between the notes. They become much more "angular" or "square" whereas the natural voice would slide neatly between the notes.

There are many more examples, but with this iPad it's hard to collect the links into one post. I'll post more later.

Ice

Coming in late here but TLFR does have overall decent sound. However I prefer the live version (done at The Borgata) to the recorded version. It has excellent sound.

Unfortunately I despise the album - ugh. And not just because "you took my songs and made them different". Bruce redoes his songs all the time. Sometimes it's a small change but sometimes he turns them on their heads. However I have seldom heard Bruce go as wrong as Jon did on TLFR. Jon took some classic songs and made them insipid. No excuse for that

And - just my 2 cents - Ice does know what he is talking about compression and autotune. I am not a sound engineer, but I am an engineer and I do a lot of mastering and editing of bootlegs. Ice has the facts correct.

Aloha !

I'd say I'm With You is a perfect example of this. Just like Have A Nice Day is. It's just that with Bon Jovi, it's gradually gotten worse so it's a bit harder to notice as you grow accustomed to what Jon's voice sounds like on record. It's only when you hear him sing a similar song live that it becomes obvious how much has been changed about it. All vocals for HAND have been heavily altered. The last chorus of Welcome To Wherever You Are is the most obvious one though, with the outro note pitched to exactly the right key. It doesn't sound natural anymore.

About a year ago there was a similar discussion about pitch correction on the Guns n Roses board, as people started questioning the vocal tracks for Chinese Democracy. Obviously a lot of work had gone into laying down the vocals, but once Axl started singing stuff live it became questionable as to whether he really sang certain vocals that high in the studio, as he never got close to nailing them the same way he did in the studio. Another reason for it might have been him recording them in 1999 and then having it released in 2008 or something, but that's another discussion. I think you get the point.

Another thing that's often going hand-in-hand (for the lack of a better term) with pitch correction is auto-tune, which has been dominating pop radio for quite a while now. Ke$ha, Katy Perry all use this a lot. Listen to Avril Lavigne's Complicated. Apart from her singing each line individually, the pitch correction is audible. "Driving in your car" goes "driihiiving in your car". It's the result of them pitching it to the right key. This one's a bit harder to hear though, but once you do start hearing these things, you start hearing it everywhere.

Yeah, I saw his reply and no, I "didn't say shit about you". What is this way of talking, you think you in some ghetto, homie?

I edited my reply because your answer to Iceman was a good example as to why it's pointless to correct people on their theories or assumptions here nowadays. Instead of replying about what he's actually saying about pitch correction all you do is call him names and start ranting about him being wrong for correcting you on something you didn't say and so on. It's replies like those that bring interesting discussions to a halt, and why I no longer feel like posting much on here anymore. If I have to answer to replies filled with insults first to get my point across, then no, thanks.

This is the first in-depth discussion on here in weeks, maybe even months, and yet the first guy to start insulting others shows up on page 4 of the topic. Is it really that hard to just talk in a more mature, grown up way? You're 31, not 18. What's so hard about saying "I'm sorry, but that wasn't what I meant?"

There's about 5 people left on this board who know how recording, mixing, editing and releasing things work, yet none of them seem to be interested in posting anymore. Now I can't speak for Iceman, but personally, I stopped calling people names years ago because I grew out of it, just like I grew tired of constantly needing to defend myself over sharing actual information, as opposed to made up theories based upon nothing but a gut feeling they seem to think makes sense. If you don't know how something works, just question it, or say "I don't know".

There used to be a time when people would join conversations because interesting questions were being asked, and it's how people learned things. It's how I learned things. Nowadays it's all about showing off how much you know, even when the things you claim to know aren't true anyway. It's quite a shame as it's put things to a halt, and it's not getting anyone anywhere.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Listen to the acapella track of Bells of Freedom to really hear the cut and paste job they did.

Cheers for those examples, be something to listen to later.

Just remembered the worst vocals I heard was, unsurprisingly, Justin Bieber. His "duet" with Mariah Carey (whose vocals appeared to just be the same as the original 94 version) on "All I Want For Christmas" is laughably bad.