Unreleased Song Titles (Revisited)

You seem clued in to reality in general, so how could you have ever assumed there was equity in the partnership? I'll give you before KTF, although I don't think they were equals ever. I mean, it's only now (or recently) that you're doubting this?

I am not saying anything about the writing process. I am sure I have seen an image or video where Supa was with all the band in the studio. I really never follow all the ins and outs of their lives, but there's something in my memory.

TBH, I think you're convinced that I don't like Jon, no matter how many times I say otherwise, and because of that you read too much into my comments, looking for criticism of Jon that just isn’t there. There was no passive-aggression; I said exactly what I meant. I’ve never thought that the relationship between Jon and Richie, or my perception of it, was anything but complicated. It's just that my perceptions about what their relationship was really like behind the scenes has been slowly changing. That’s based on comments from a lot of people, including both Jon and Richie; but it’s primarily been some of the things Jon has said and done over the last several years that opened my eyes and caused me to rethink some of my previous assumptions. Along with the changes in my own perceptions, it dawned on me that, over thirty years, the relationship itself has likely changed significantly, perhaps many times, to get from what it seemed to be in the beginning to what it seems to be now; and maybe I'm just now catching up with that. But as semigoodlooking says, it’s never been about them being equals because Jon’s always been the boss. As such, Jon makes the rules; and I’m sure that there are things he does that aren’t options for the other band members, including Richie. So, I don’t think we can assume, just because Jon brings in outside writers, that Richie could do that, too. That’s wasn’t a jab at Jon. All the band members have said, at one time or another, that it’s not a democracy, it’s a benevolent dictatorship.

I also don't think I've implied that Jon rips people off. I think there have been instances where Jon may have agreed to record a song in exchange for song-writing credits; but that isn't a rip-off. As I understand it, that's a fairly common practice in the industry; and assuming there is fair compensation, it would benefit both Jon and the "ghost writer" or "co"-writer. Jon gets to record a song he likes, receives songwriter royalties, and can continue saying that his name is on every song in his catalog. And whether he is credited or not, the writer probably gets more for his song, if Bon Jovi records it, than he would ever get if he held out for full credit and Jon refused to record it. 20% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

In this particular case, Supa got credit for the co-write, whether he sat in the room with Jon and Richie to write the songs or not. You could be right that the three of them were together when those songs were written. But, imo, it’s no less credible that Supa and Richie could have written the songs while they were working on US; and since they weren’t used on the album, some of them may have been among the songs that Richie brought to the sessions with Jon. Given that you were already thinking that way about TMOAGT, I don’t understand why you think it’s any less likely, just because there were 3 songs (or 4 with OTSG) instead of just the one.

Semigoodlooking seems to remember seeing Supa in the studio with them. If he’s right, that might change my way of thinking. Barring that, I haven’t seen anything that connects Supa with Bon Jovi other than Richie. But there are probably a gabillion things in this world that I haven’t seen. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist, it just means that I’m unaware of them.

I'd like to chip in that It Only Takes One To Say Goodbye sounds quite a bit like One Night Of Peace (whose co-writer had his credit removed from the RSO version - talking about screwing people over...). Richie may have re-visited the basic musical idea, whether that was deliberately or not.

Also, IOTOTSG is a great song; I too wish the BJ demo was available.

I think it's less likely because one song, sure. A song Richie did with Supa got unused so it was re-visited. There's just no reason to think that Neurotica, Ain't No Cure For Love, One to Say Goodbye AND Too Much Of A Good Thing all came from those some US sessions. It's not even completely that Richie can't bring in other writers, the amount of songs they write there's just no need to revisit past work. That's something they've even said themselves. Why does there have to be a connection between Supa and the band for it to be credible that he wrote the songs with them in 2000? Supa is a pretty prolific song writer, they clearly love the work Desmond did with Aerosmith so it stands to reason wanting to write with him is a no-brainer.

I'm even seeing press releases including Bon Jovi in the works he's done. There's so much stacked in favor of Jon simply bringing in Supa it's tough to even consider those songs were all 1998 based and revisited in early 2000.

There doesn't. Have you been taking reading lessons from RDK?

I don't know how to say any more clearly that either scenario could be what happened; and it's obvious that we aren't going to agree on which one is more likely. So let's just leave it at that, shall we?

Yeah, I did another search last night, using 'RIchie Supa Bon Jovi', instead of 'Richie Supa' and I saw BJ listed with artists who have recorded his songs. I was going to edit my post this morning to correct that but you beat me to it.

I'm done debating but, just out of curiosity, would you please explain this to me... I don't see what loving the work Desmond did with Aerosmith has to do the price of eggs in China. The only connection I can see is that Supa and Desmond both worked with Aerosmith.

Especially because it was live-in-the-studio demo done by Jon and Richie...

Gee... I LOVE IOTOTSG ♥_♥!!!

JackieBlue, since you like to analyze everything, maybe if you analyze THE SONGS you will find if JBJ wrote them or not, 'cause I don't wanna think you care so much for Richie just because you think he is hot or... whatever (I know you were kidding but by personal experience I think there is truth in every joke -_-)

More so what I meant was you were saying Richie Supa has no connections with Bon Jovi. My point about Aerosmith was about the band wanting to work with song writers within a certain frame.

Alas it's not worth debating over and being compared to RD has me retreating to lick my wounds. Let's call this one a draw!

1. Don't compare one as such to my greatness... That's more of an insult to me then to him.
2. Your posts have so much conflicting information in them, they are almost impossible to understand at times.

Example:

Jackie: I love Pumpkin, Vanilla, and Hazelnut Spices but I hate flavored coffees... (Conflict Number 1)

RK: I was going to suggest cinnamon spice but being that you hate flavored coffees, never mind then!

Jackie:I NEVER SAID I HATED ALL FLAVORED COFFEE!!! CAN"T YOU READ!!!! (Conflict Number 2 - End Result)

I can't figure that out either. I couldn't put my hands on my CD today, but best I can remember, the whole thing was off. There were no liner notes, or lyrics, and Richie usually goes out of his way with stuff like that - the thank yous, and little things, like on Stranger with the "listening" instructions. Maybe they were just over it by the time it was released.

It still doesn't make sense that he would be deliberately trying to screw Bruce over; because if that had been the case, surely Richie wouldn't have talked so much about co-writing it with Bruce. Besides that, Bruce had already recorded and released his version - several years ago, if I'm not mistaken. So I don't know what's up with that.

I haven't changed my opinion of the songs: I think they're good, with minor exceptions in a few places; but other than that, this whole project has been a nightmare - from concept, then marketing, right through to the finished product. I guess it is what it is; but it makes me sad.

EDIT: I just found my CD and I was wrong. It doesn't have the lyrics, or notes and thank yous; but there are individual writing and personnel credits for each of the songs. I must have been thinking of the track listing on RSO Official where it has RSO for each song.