What a difference...

Santa_Fe · #**101** 11-20-2003, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponrauil

I think Jon's attitude lately shows that he's not "hungry" anymore and doesn't want to improve. He seems to lay back on what he has achieved so far as a performer (I'm not including his songwriting here, even though it could be discussed) and be passive on how his voice evolves. All his moves, poses, words, impros in recent shows just seem "overthought" and sometimes caricatural. Maybe it's his acting career that has an influence, I don't know. He's just getting closer to being a crooner than a rock band frontman these days.
Maybe he's trying to compensate what he's lost in his voice with attitude. Might work for some, good for them. Doesn't work for me.

Ponrauil

That's why I'm saying Jon's mental state worries me. All his (and the band's) problems come from his mental state. He seems to be like a lost soul. Very disillusioned, disheartened. Like he lost his faith in himself, in rock music. Whatever it's I don't know.

In all honesty, it's not his singing that bothers me the most. His songwriting does. And it is his songwriting that leads me to believe in all those things I said.

I mean 10 years ago this guy wrote Dry County, I Believe, Bed of Roses, Santa Fe, Blaze, Bang a Drum. These songs make me go "Wow! This is amazing! What a talent! " In the recent songs I see a very poor shadow of that Jon. Sometimes I cannot even recognize this person. I don't know what's going on with him. But I think he's got some problems (And that's not his age or attitude. Methinks its goes deeper than that.).
He must pull himself out of his problems (I don't know what word to use here). He did it in 1990. I hope he can do it again. Otherwise, there is no future for this band.

Jag · #**102** 11-20-2003, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santa_Fe

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponrauil

I think Jon's attitude lately shows that he's not "hungry" anymore and doesn't want to improve. He seems to lay back on what he has achieved so far as a performer (I'm not including his songwriting here, even though it could be discussed) and be passive on how his voice evolves. All his moves, poses, words, impros in recent shows just seem "overthought" and sometimes caricatural. Maybe it's his acting career that has an influence, I don't know. He's just getting closer to being a crooner than a rock band frontman these days.
Maybe he's trying to compensate what he's lost in his voice with attitude. Might work for some, good for them. Doesn't work for me.

Ponrauil

That's why I'm saying Jon's mental state worries me. All his (and the band's) problems come from his mental state. He seems to be like a lost soul. Very disillusioned, disheartened. Like he lost his faith in himself, in rock music. Whatever it's I don't know.

In all honesty, it's not his singing that bothers me the most. His songwriting does. And it is his songwriting that leads me to believe in all those things I said.

I mean 10 years ago this guy wrote Dry County, I Believe, Bed of Roses, Santa Fe, Blaze, Bang a Drum. These songs make me go "Wow! This is amazing! What a talent! " In the recent songs I see a very poor shadow of that Jon. Sometimes I cannot even recognize this person. I don't know what's going on with him. But I think he's got some problems (And that's not his age or attitude. Methinks its goes deeper than that.).
He must pull himself out of his problems (I don't know what word to use here). He did it in 1990. I hope he can do it again. Otherwise, there is no future for this band.

i dont think jon is disillusioned he is probs really happy, the band are thriving and came back to huge heights with crush...i dontsee a mean a lost soul, or faith in himself...i see someonw hugely confident and proud and standing tall....and the guy just had a a new born so i think his life is pretty darn good. in singwriting, 10 yrs later he has written its ahrd letting u go, something to believe in, right side of wrong, and his solo album DA is a huge masterpiece lyrically.

that is just my view anyhow..

Jag · #**103** 11-20-2003, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponrauil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jag

seriously tho, i dunno wot jon/richie running around the stage has gotta do with anything...do ppl want them to do flip flops??....i think they are great in their performances and phenomanal still at times...

Flip flops? That would be cool

No, it's just that the way they used to move matched and galvanised the energy of the songs. Now they just walk round a bit, smile, get shoulder to shoulder when the lyrics tell them to, etc... As Iceman said, it's the SHOW elements that are slowly disappearing.

Ponrauil

well i think they are amazing entertainers, and full of the energy u speak, i guess every1 looks for different things in a performance, be it a jon scream, certain improvisation etc

davefan · #**104** 11-20-2003, 12:22 AM

I think it depends very much on what concert they play. it`s all about the crowed. ok I didn`t really pay much attantion to jon this tour

but it seemed like for example in zuric there where less people and less fanclub members and the mood wasn`t as amazin as elsewhere. so maybe jon was a little less excited there and more less did his job.

on the other hand 2 day later was munic. the stadium was sold out. the fan club pit extremly full even the seats where filled with poeple who where in a really really good mood. that amzed the band too and they reacted to it. played longer, ran around a little more (jon was standing far to often on davids side

) more jokes more different songs.

I think the bounce tour was great again. the own tour it was all acted. every little joke repeated, every song was the same. that was very dissapointing.

Becky · #**105** 11-20-2003, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponrauil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Becky

The point, Richie, is that if you don't agree with certain people they will tell you you're wrong or blind rather than just respecting your right to have your own opinion and different taste. It doesn't matter if you're also a fan of the band being discussed. If you don't agree, you're "wrong." End of story.

Becky

I believe in free thought and speech. But we can't all be right if we think differently (unless it's a matter of taste). I hope for yourself that you believe in your opinions enough to think that you are right. What's the problem with that?
Thinking something just for the sake of it is pointless. An opinion will lead you to answer yes or no to some questions and both answers cannot be correct.

Has Jon lost his voice range and power? (Question about a fact, not taste)

If the answer is yes, how can "no" not be wrong? (and vice-versa)

Ponrauil

Um... I was being sarcastic.

Becky

Teemu · #**106** 11-20-2003, 12:33 AM

Do you guys think that Jon does vocal exercises? Could the lack of vocal exercises be the reason why his voice isn't as good as it used to be. I am really just speculating here 'cause I really don't know much about how vocal exercises affect singers(=experienced singer such as Jon) voice. If you guys have any views on this matter I would like to hear them..

Teemu

mreto · #**107** 11-20-2003, 12:40 AM

vocal exercises? you mean "eat a lotta pussy"?

sorry for that joke, just seen "rock star" today again and had to say that...

Santa_Fe · #**108** 11-20-2003, 12:41 AM

I agree with Jag, when he is saying DA was a very good record, when it comes to songwriting. But that's not the band's record.

When it comes to the band, none of the post-2000 songs make me go Wow! This is genious!

About most pre-2000 songs I usually say "This song is not as good as others". About post-2000, I say "This song is better than others."

They used to be such a stand-out band. U2 - kinda stand-out band. Today they are like tens of other bands. On the same level with the bands like Goo Goo Dolls and Matchbox Twenty. They are not supposed to be on their level. They are supposed to be on U2-level.

ponrauil · #**109** 11-20-2003, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teemu

Do you guys think that Jon does vocal exercises? Could the lack of vocal exercises be the reason why his voice isn't as good as it used to be. I am really just speculating here 'cause I really don't know much about how vocal exercises affect singers(=experienced singer such as Jon) voice. If you guys have any views on this matter I would like to hear them..

Teemu

I think he did sometime between Blaze and These Days. He couldn't have sung Always with a clear voice back in the 80's. He probably did exercices to learn how to sing in a safe way for his chords. That's how he kept a great voice up to 1996.

Ponrauil

ponrauil · #**110** 11-20-2003, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santa_Fe

They used to be such a stand-out band. U2 - kinda stand-out band. Today they are like tens of other bands. On the same level with the bands like Goo Goo Dolls and Matchbox Twenty. They are not supposed to be on their level. They are supposed to be on U2-level.

Yep. Seems like they kind of took this status for granted. Reaching it was the easy part. To stay on top is the hardest, and it needs will, dedication and determination. And you can't throw away what brought you on top like they are.

Ponrauil

What a difference...

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