Where did it all go wrong :(

It's not a coincidence that he looked in shape both physically and vocally in 2011 H2-2013 H1 and then next time we saw him... not so much.

Richie needs Jon more than Jon needs Richie. Richie needs a leader, both musically and as a professional. He's great at being Jon's right hand and that's a pair of boots no one can fill up, but just look at what has become of Richie since leaving Bon Jovi.
Richie was my hero but right now he's a joke. It breaks my heart seeing what has become of him. Jons voice may be ****ed up, but something far worse has happened to Richie.

Agreed on all of that. The way he left is inexcusable, unless he was drunk/high and finally admits he has problems and faces them once and for all. Other than that, he can take his whole talk, creepy girlfriend and strange new music and stuff it where the sun doesn't shine. JMO...

Dammit, I KNEW I should have slept on that before I posted it! That’s exactly why I try to avoid posting when I’m frustrated.

You, sir, are 99 and 44/100 percent correct in everything you said. But I will take exception to that little bitty 56/100 percent where I think you missed the mark. (Which, along with explaining my obvious misstatements, will probably end up being longer than the original post, knowing me…)

That is my assumption regarding David’s feelings about working with Jon. I apologize; I’m usually more careful about qualifying my assumptions as such, rather than presenting them as fact, like I did here. I should have said, “Perhaps…” My only defense is that it was way past my bedtime and my phone was being cranky because the battery was low so I was a wee bit pissed off.

David didn’t come across as miserable to me either, but he did seem resigned to the way things work in the band. More than one person has commented on how disgruntled he sounded, to the extent that they were surprised (as I am) that Jon didn’t edit it out. His response to a question about resenting Jon’s control was “Sometimes. But not enough to ruin my life over.” Later he said, “It’s good and bad, but not bad enough to walk away from…” (which I find intriguing, given that it was recorded around 2008.) It still doesn’t sound to me like he’s there just out of loyalty to Jon or because he's totally happy.

Your comments about Tico are spot on; but then I didn’t imply that he ditched Richie or parroted statements Jon has made. Tico is the only one of the three who hasn’t been negative about Richie, directly or indirectly, since he left. I think Tico would tell somebody to **** off if they tried to tell him what to say in interviews; but I could be wrong. And, tbh, it’s just an educated guess that Jon is telling David what to say; but it sounds to me like he’s “feeding scripted lines to talking heads”. It seems suspicious to me that David started speaking up in interviews just when people here, and other boards, were beginning to complain about Jon’s clichéd responses and asking why he kept bringing up Richie drama.

Case in point:

Anyone who has seen Jon’s interviews, especially during the initial promotion of THINFS, can easily recognize his go-to statements in that comment from David because they’re nearly verbatim. It’s almost like he’s ticking them off, to make sure he gets them all in. At the same time, Jon abruptly became more neutral in his comments and rarely said any of those things. My conclusion? He didn’t need to any longer; he gave that job to David.

I remember my surprise (and disappointment) when I watched Richie do the same thing in an interview years ago in response to a question about what happened with Alec. After years of not commenting on why Alec left, Richie was suddenly willing to talk about it; and he gave Jon’s pat answer in almost exactly the same way David has done it this time around. I guess Richie was right about that, too, huh? “Everybody rides on the karma train.”

Does that necessarily mean that David (or Richie) didn’t believe what he said? No. But the timing and the verbiage seem awfully coincidental; and I’m not a big fan of coincidence. Plus, David’s first statement is the same lie that Jon suddenly started telling with the promotional interviews. What are the chances that David would make the same false statement if it weren’t scripted by Jon? So yep, I think David’s been bought. But you’re right, it’s just an assumption.

My comments about why David and Tico haven’t quit were hypothetical, in response to the theory that everybody else in the band must be happy with Jon as the boss; or they would have walked away, too. There again, I should have said “MAYBE they stay because…” There could be any number of reasons why Richie walked and the rest of the band is still there. That was just one possibility. People are individuals with different motives for the things they do. I know I’ve stayed in jobs where I wasn’t happy, because I wasn’t unhappy enough to take a hike. Maybe David and Tico aren’t at that point and Richie was. But if they aren’t unhappy enough to walk away, then it stands to reason that they may, at times, have to also suck it up and do what the boss says. So IF Jon has said something like, “OK, we’re going to present a united front and this is the story that we’re sticking to…”, which would only be good strategy, it doesn’t leave them a lot of choices, imo. I know of at least one instance where Phil-X and David have changed their stories about having been in contact with Richie, after Jon changed his, I guess to reinforce the idea that Richie didn’t care enough to try and maintain contact – which, btw, is diametrically opposed to what Richie has said. And every time someone pointed out that someone had actually been in contact in some way, Jon altered his statement: No one’s heard from him since, no wait… no one’s talked with him, nah… he hasn’t called since, um… he hasn’t been in contact with any of… scratch that… The latest version is “we haven’t seen him in person since he didn’t show up in Calgary. Not me, not David, not Tico.”

To your last comment and this from Jeeper:

First, I didn’t mean to imply that I think Richie OR Jon are assholes, so I should have said, “If you’re going to label Richie an asshole because he didn’t follow through on a commitment…”

Second, I didn’t compare Richie leaving the band with Jon canceling shows.

People say they don’t mind that Richie quit the band. The biggest beef seems to be that Richie didn’t show up in Calgary and left his “brothers” hanging without warning. And cqleonardo said that made Richie an asshole. So, my only point was if the criteria for being labeled an asshole is not showing up and letting people down with no warning, then slap that brush on Jon, too. Because he just did the same thing. Period. And I stand by that.

I can see only one difference between Richie not showing up in Calgary (for whatever his personal reasons were) and Jon cancelling Denver to reschedule MSG (for whatever personal reasons he had): I’m pretty sure that Richie knew, from experience, that the fans in Calgary would get a show whether he showed up or not because Jon would see to that. The fans in Denver (or wherever they’re coming in from – again!) won’t get any show. Because when Jonny doesn’t show up, NOBODY shows up.

Is the impact equal for all fans? Probably not. Do I personally feel the impact of one decision more than the other? You betcha. But ethically speaking, the situations are the same. Personal reasons led to Jon and Richie breaking previous commitments, which in turn led to both of them letting people down with no warning. And both guys could have handled it differently, but they chose not to.

As far as we know. Which leads me back to my original post and the one I should perhaps stick to.

“We. Don’t. Know.”

Once again, situations are very similar. So, do you think Jon is “classless” because he has often painted himself as the songwriter in the band? Even further, is Jon classless when he claims to be the sole visionary, or implies that he’s the only one who toils away while the other band members are slacking off in a bar or on the tennis court, or when he disses the contributions of others because a reporter even hints that someone else contributed to the band's success in a significant way?

I’m honestly not trying to turn this into a Jon vs. Richie thing. I just wonder if you hold others to the same standards you have for Richie. Because I’ve seen a lot of double standards over the last 4 years.

I’ve lost count of how many times I've said this, but Richie Sambora has said NOTHING about songwriting that he hasn't said in prior interviews over the last 30 years, often with Jon sitting right beside him. People choose to take the statements differently this time around because they’re pissed off, so they make assumptions about his intent. He has said NOTHING to imply that he is THE songwriter to the exclusion of anyone else. If you were to check those comments within context I believe you would find that every time he emphasized "the" songwriter is when he's explaining why his involvement in the recording process is more time-consuming than other band members, and why it has been a continuous process without a break for him. (Probably in reaction to the same "why don't Tico and David feel the same way?" bullshit that some people have been yapping about since the beginning of time.)

The only other times I can recall him talking about songwriting, as it relates to Bon Jovi, is in response to why he does Bon Jovi songs in his solo shows (“They’re my songs, too”) or why he wants to express himself through his solo work (because when writing for Bon Jovi, he’s limited to writing songs Jon can sell). Again, nothing he hasn’t said many times over the years; but people still insist on interpreting it negatively since he left the band.

THIS!! Jon kept him in line, now look what we have, sloppy playing, he can't sing his own songs, this partnership with Orianthi is just to try to make another fantastic duo, like it was him and JBJ but its not gonna work

Oh, so many fortune tellers reading from the crystal ball here Richie MUST HAVE BEEN drunk as hell and that's why he didn't show up in Calgary and then the consecutive 82 shows! *claps hands* We know NOTHING and all these bits and pieces of interviews or (joint) statements are just speculations to the nature of the intentions behind them. We are clueless but yet so firmly hanging on to our own opinions like they were the Holy Bible. And yet it's so hard not to take sides when there is such a polarization within the band itself: it's not our fault, it's theirs but hey, I love the man! The machine is rolling on, so many people are happy and the band members don't care about our opinions as much as we would wish they did. Such big changes never happen overnight and it needs time to build up. Some say there were 'attempts' to dismantle earlier but somehow, those plans were always pushed aside. Still, with all 5 original members or 3 left, there's still the namesake one so everything's perfect....The divorce took place 4 years ago and it's still a sore spot for some fans. Threads like this are always a TRAP because it's not going to heal so easily, if ever.

This part I've always found curious.
When Jon used to say "no one has seen him"... Did he not include Hugh in that? Who stood next to Richie and played at Sundance with him in early 2014...And had photos together on Hugh's wife's Instagram.
And also, we know Phil X saw him at some point due to his tweet about them running into each other.

I also tend to believe that these days, it would be difficult for Richie and Jon not to have had contact... Texts etc. Surely they are speaking again by now?

I have nothing against Jon or Richie. Just genuinely curious...Maybe just Jon's way of shutting down the media attention

^

Your post really got me thinking, Emma. You brought up some interesting things, thank you!

I guess Hugh and Phil weren't technically band members til last year, but still... Interesting.