Who the F*ck is George Karak????????

Again, I don't necessarily take everything that Jon says as gospel. Of course he is going to say he always brings the song in. Personally I don't believe that is always the case. Mostly yes, but not always.

Of course he used This House as an example. A song that is clearly his....

Aloha !

Yeah. And besides, he's not going to admit he didn't come up with the idea for a bit hit or a fan favourite either. There's several examples nowadays of songs he either co-wrote or changed after a songwriter brought a song to the table.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Don't know if this will contribute to the discussion or not, but here are a couple pictures I took in Cleveland of the handwritten lyrics. There are definitely two different handwriting styles; but I'm not sure if you can determine who wrote what. In places, they are very similar; and especially with the cross-outs and corrections in the verses, it's hard to tell.

Anyway, for what it's worth:

Such as? I know about Ugly, but usually the intricacies of the songwriting process is kept confidential; I mean, these guys are pros for a reason.

Well, he got back to me:
Somewhere among all that prehistory dwells the truth -- the story probably goes something like this:

Karak wrote and composed Runaway, recorded it with an acoustic piano opening, and got it copyrighted before 1981. He met Jon soon afterward, and they started writing together. Karak showed Runaway to Jon, who liked it enough to give it a mainly vocal touch, which his cousin liked enough to get it recorded at his Power Station studio. It got on the WAPP compilation, became a hit, and generated a record deal offer.

Karak refused to sell Runaway's publishing rights for the $10K Jon offered him through the label, and settled on splitting them down the middle to get it onto the album. That would explain why Karack believed he was "qualified" to be Jon's "boss," as well as his attempt at retaliation by recording a post-WAPP version of Runaway with his own band!

So could we say that basically the same happened to the Power Station songs?

The fight over the rights of the Powerstation was in around 1997/98 and of a completely different nature.

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Aloha !

Runaway was originally written by George Karak.

Shot Through The Heart was orginially written by Jack Ponti.

You Give Love A Bad Name was originally written by Desmond Child.

Livin' On A Prayer was originally written by Desmond Child.

Most of Blaze of Glory was co-written with someone else, mostly Aldo Nova but it's absolutely not solely written by Jon Bon Jovi.

Ugly was written by Eric Bazilian

It's My Life was written by Max Martin. All Bon Jovi did was change the verses.

Everyday was written by Andreas Carlsson. Jon came up with the idea but the song itself was written by Carlson. There's a reason why it sounds so much like 'N Sync's Bye Bye. It was just Bon Jovi trying to do the same like they did with Backstreet Boys' Larger Than Life.

All About Lovin' You was written by Andreas Carlsson for LeAnn Rhimes' Twisted Angel record but declined by her camp. The band told the record company there'd be no ballads on the album and were therefore forced to record one anyway.

The Bounce era is very sketchy to say the least. Several songs were written by other writers, then Jon co-wrote several parts and then changed them into Bon Jovi songs by doing another writing session with Richie or with Richie and Desmond Child.

Songwriters attached to the Bon Jovi camp will never acknowledge this as there's most likely some confidentiality agreement signed and/or they were bought off. Besides, it'd harm their future income as no one would be willing to hire them anymore. Plus Bon Jovi used to have a very distinctive sound which would turn any song into a Bon Jovi song anyway.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

We "know" that because...?

We "know" that because...? JBJ and JP were in a band together before, too.

We "know" that because...?

In this case: Even Desmond himself said they wrote it together. The chorus melody is an old one his, yes, but that's not quite the same as "he wrote it all, brought it to the band, and they just slapped their names onto it".

We "know" that because...? Desmond said several parts of it were inspired by his life? Hardly the same as "he wrote it all, the band just added their names after the fact".

Co-writen = "completely written by someone else"?

Bazillian himself said that Jon made music changes and added the guitar lick. But yeah, that one I'll give you, because, unlike the previous ones, there's actual evidence here.

Source? Also, given how JBJ said he fought for the "Frankie" line, he at least changed that about the chorus too.

Source?

Source?

So what are we talking about here? Your intuition? "It sure sounds like it"? You made a super bold claim, and then you come up with this list? Come on man.

Aloha !

I understand your need for sources but really can't get into it as much as you'd probably like. I know it sounds lame, but it is what it is.

I can give you this one though as this story is "out there":

By the time the band had started writing for what was going to be Bounce the record company demanded a lot more input as Crush had only had 1 big hitsingle. Everything else had tanked with the exception of some stuff doing relatively well in some markets. Thus, much like 1985 when Desmond Child was suggested to Jon and Richie, other songwriters were suggested and Jon went on to write with Marti Frederiksen and Andreas Carlson. These were sessions with just the two of them, Richie was not involved in any of these writing sessions if I remember correctly.

Back in 2001 however, Andreas Carlson had written some songs together with Desmond Child for what was supposed to be LeAnn Rhimes big comeback record after Can't Fight The Moonlight a few years earlier. In early 2002, someone in LeAnn Rhimes' camp confirmed All About Lovin' You being offered to Bon Jovi after it didn't make the cut to LeAnn Rhimes' Twisted Angel album. Backstage kept deleting the topic back then as people started discussing the song before anyone had acknowledged its existence.

In the end it turned out All About Lovin' You was put on Bounce because the record company demanded a ballad despite Jon saying he didn't feel like singing and writing ballads anymore. All the songs written with Fredriksen were deemed to heavy for the album and then there's the other stuff on Bounce. Hook Me Up, Misunderstood, Everyday and You Had Me From Hello were all co-written with Carlson but Everyday is as much written by Bon Jovi as It's My Life was written by Bon Jovi.

I'm not saying Jon and Carlson didn't write anything together. Hook Me Up was originally a slow ballad and then turned into something else when Jon came up with the concept of a Palestinian man trying to make contact on a radio and then turned into a rock song by Jon, Richie and Desmond Child when writing together back home. The four of them however never wrote together though. Again, I can't give you a source for this but really, what do I have to lose?

I think you most likely know as well about Bon Jovi's history with rumours in regards to ghost writers. It goes back a long, long time and these stories start somewhere. And yes, Bon Jovi do sometimes steal entire songs and slap different lyrics to it. Capt. Crash/Stay Young is a prime example, but they've done it before. Bitter Wine is Shooting Star with different lyrics and a slightly different melody. Joey sounds an awful lot like Levon. We Weren't Born To Follow is a carbon copy of a country/rock song I once heard on the radio while driving in Canada. I've no idea what it's called but it was clear as day. While typing I realize this sounds shady but again, take it for what it is.

If those are just the ones we know off it's silly to think those are the only ones. Every once in a while I hear a new one. You know I'm a fan of Oasis and Noel Gallagher does it all the time. He just does it a lot more obvious. I feel there's no shame in it either, I reckon about every songwriter does it every once in a while. Jon however is very secretive about the way he writes songs as he's got a chip on his shoulder and always in desperate need for some acknowledgement in regards to him being the songwriter he wishes people would think he was. I've no idea why, he's written a lot of good stuff. There's no need to try to claim credit for the things he didn't come up with by himself like half of Blaze Of Glory.

This is really as far as I can go without getting into trouble of possibly losing my sources. I've no problem with losing any credibility with you or anyone over this anyway if you refuse to believe me but I'd like to think you know when I'm bullshitting around or just giving a bit of information.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan