Jovitalk - Bon Jovi Fan Community
Home Register Members FAQ Mark Forums Read
 

Why can't they just give us proper live recordings?

General BJ Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 03-22-2020, 01:37 AM
rokuli's Avatar
rokuli rokuli is offline
Senior Member
Hardest Part is the Night
 
Join Date: 05 May 2016
Gender: male
Posts: 243
Default

Good thread and it shows we STILL CARE.

They did shelve the campaign which started with New Jersey back in 2014:

"More 30th anniversary commemorative titles, including newly-compiled collections of studio and live recordings, will also be released this year. Until then, these deluxe editions of New Jersey are out on 1 July 2014."

WONDER what's been in the works for that.

But after ALL THESE years since the late 80s I'm actually given up hope they ever release anything from the golden era...

I hold tight to my precious bootlegs of:

Cincinnatti 1987
Rotterdam 1989
Hammersmith 1990

and those officially released b-side live tracks.
Reply With Quote

  #12  
Old 05-28-2020, 11:56 PM
Pivek's Avatar
Pivek Pivek is offline
Member
Breakout
 
Join Date: 01 Sep 2002
Location: Poland, Wrocław
Age: 34
Gender: male
Posts: 45
Default

Quote:
I honestly don't get it - what's the point behind this? On the one hand, they are too lazy to really take stuff out of their vaults that would be new and welcomed by the fans, on the other hand they (Obie?) invest a lot of time in editing together bogus live versions...
Oh my God... over these 20 years I was thinking I am alone with that...
Remember my first time when I discovered that not only setlist of Crush Tour VHS was shortened comparing to DVD, but engineering was made so bad, that tracks are shorter and even fragments of audio are placed in wrong position (so entire chorus of Livin' was replaced with something else...).

To this day I wonder "Why guys... why?". Why you are messing with live tracks on singles and cutting all Jon speeches? Why do you mess MSG 2008, so proper order is destroyed and missing tracks are available as... bonus? Really...?

A long, long time my decision was to stick SNB and PRO unofficial recordings. I am pretty happy with that, but I reached probably 95% available stuff... I still hope that someday BJ vaults will be really opened.

Quote:
So yeah, like most decisions it comes down to money and ego. Back in 2001 many die hards voiced their disappointment after the release of One Wild Night 2001 was released and Obie got frustrated and told Jovitalk to shut up about it. This band doesn't welcome criticism because it'd mean they're wrong. And we all know Jon is never wrong and neither are his yes-man.
Sebastian, could you put some light on this? I am really surprised about Obie reaction and I was not aware of fans dissapointment on OWNL.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-13-2020, 07:22 AM
Supersonic's Avatar
Supersonic Supersonic is offline
The One And Only Real Backstage Killer
I'll Post When I'm Dead
 
Join Date: 03 Aug 2002
Location: Bangkok
Gender: male
Posts: 15,849
Send a message via MSN to Supersonic
Default

Aloha !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pivek View Post
Sebastian, could you put some light on this? I am really surprised about Obie reaction and I was not aware of fans dissapointment on OWNL.
Obie had been bragging to fans how he'd been digging deep into the archives to find all these old recordings. Both on Backstage and Jovitalk people got excited, finally expecting the live release the band had never released.

Once One Wild Night was released there were 11 songs on there which had already been on previous releases. 4 songs were lifted from the Crush DVD, 2 off an official fanclub release and then there were 5 b-sides crammed on there. Then there's the insane amount of edits just to be able to fit all those songs on 1 disc. Prayer, Saturday Night, In & Out Of Love, Something For The Pain and Bad Medicine were all shortened. I think Something To Believe In was as well, but I'm not sure, it's been too long since I've heard the album. A casual listener won't hear it but someone who knows Bon Jovi live versions by heart does.

Back in 2001 Obie gave "hilarious" answers to fans asking questions. When someone asked "How do you feel the response to the live album has been" he said "Everyone likes it apart from a few snobs from that other messageboard". He mentioned this when talking to fans, saying "we" were impossible to please. Meanwhile, on Backstage every negative thread was immidiately deleted so it'd look like everyone loved it. Most of these supposed die hards on Backstage had no idea what was out there. Some people from Jovitalk posted there as well and said a lot was already out there. Backstage got light of this and eventually some people on there mentioned things like "Well I'm glad we got a live album but it could've been better". Obie talked to fans before shows as well and heard about the critisism and always dismissed this as needless. "Just be happy with what you got". But what we got really was only a fully unedited version of Just Older from Toronto. But Just Older had been released on the Crush DVD, as a b-side on the Crush bonus disc and as a b-side from New York City. There was nothing new on that album and Obie knew it too. He just expected to get away with it and looked like a ****ing moron. He'd just gotten used to all the adoration from fans and it turned out he couldn't deliver.

When he started work on the box set he did a lot more of investigating asking fans if they'd heard song this or song that to make sure it'd be full of songs that weren't in circulation already. It's how some song titles were eventually leaked to see if people would respond with "But we've already got that one!". It's also the major reason why there's no stuff from the eighties on there. Most of it is already out there.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-14-2020, 09:14 AM
steel_horse75's Avatar
steel_horse75 steel_horse75 is offline
Senior Member
It's my post
 
Join Date: 29 May 2007
Location: Klopp Army
Age: 45
Gender: male
Posts: 4,771
Default

I got a promo copy of OWNL when I worked for the label a few weeks prior to release. I was so disappointed. I’ve heard it once since release.
As Seb says there was hardly anything new on there and the songs were shortened. It sounds like it was literally thrown together in 5 minutes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Wembley Arena 90, Wembley Arena 93, MK Bowl 93, Wembley Stadium 95, MK Bowl 96, Wembley Stadium 00, MK Bowl 01, Hyde Park 03, MK Bowl 06, o2 07, Twickenham 08, o2 10 (x2), Hyde Park 13, London Palladium 16, Wembley 19
Follow me: @iam_emmo
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-14-2020, 01:10 PM
Faceman Faceman is offline
Senior Member
Jovi Addict
 
Join Date: 12 Apr 2006
Gender: male
Posts: 532
Default

This shows that it was just an album for the newly gained fans after the success of Crush and It's My Life. To introduce some of the back catalogue and especially Bon Jovi as a live band.
When I became a real fan in 2002 (I already liked them since Crossroad but was just too young to become something like a fan) I absolutely loved this live album - because I had absolutely no idea. But with all those bootlegs being around I quickly lost interest in that album and haven't listened to it from start to finish for probably 12-15 years or something.
__________________
Check out what's becoming the biggest Bon Jovi touring website: https://bjtours.jimdo.com/
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-14-2020, 01:14 PM
bonjovi90's Avatar
bonjovi90 bonjovi90 is offline
Senior Member
Price of posting
 
Join Date: 07 Jun 2008
Gender: male
Posts: 5,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceman View Post
This shows that it was just an album for the newly gained fans after the success of Crush and It's My Life. To introduce some of the back catalogue and especially Bon Jovi as a live band.
When I became a real fan in 2002 (I already liked them since Crossroad but was just too young to become something like a fan) I absolutely loved this live album - because I had absolutely no idea. But with all those bootlegs being around I quickly lost interest in that album and haven't listened to it from start to finish for probably 12-15 years or something.
Yep, it was just following in the footsteps of what Crush had caused. A new generation of fans and the band selling out and catering more and more to something that hadn't been their core audience for the first 2 decades.
__________________
Check out what's becoming the biggest Bon Jovi touring website: https://bjtours.jimdo.com/
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-14-2020, 02:05 PM
Rdkopper's Avatar
Rdkopper Rdkopper is offline
Senior Member
Posting everyday
 
Join Date: 04 Oct 2008
Gender: male
Posts: 7,585
Default

In the bands defense, Jon actually wanted a double disk but the record company shot that idea down due to money so yes, they needed to basically make a live greatest hits out of 1 CD.

This was part of that crazy 10 major releases in 10 years (or was it 15 in 15?).

Another reason for that 5 CD/DVD box set btw.

Also, everyone blamed Jon for the rushed 2013 What About Now album but I think Jon had no choice... 2000 to 2014 is 15 years and Burning Bridges was the last of that contract which again, was part of the record company demand...

You could maybe shift some blame for the lengthy tour but I think the album was a must.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk
__________________
World’s Most Professional Bon Jovi Fan!!!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-14-2020, 03:24 PM
Faceman Faceman is offline
Senior Member
Jovi Addict
 
Join Date: 12 Apr 2006
Gender: male
Posts: 532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdkopper View Post
In the bands defense, Jon actually wanted a double disk but the record company shot that idea down due to money so yes, they needed to basically make a live greatest hits out of 1 CD.
But that's no excuse for them releasing a cd with live tracks that have already been released one way or another. Even on one cd they could have put unreleased live versions.
And furthermore by 2001 Jon should have known better that the record company refuses double albums. They already did so with New Jersey, Keep The Faith and I think Crossroad, too.

Regarding Jon's contract - what is the source for all those information?
__________________
Check out what's becoming the biggest Bon Jovi touring website: https://bjtours.jimdo.com/
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-14-2020, 03:35 PM
bonjovi90's Avatar
bonjovi90 bonjovi90 is offline
Senior Member
Price of posting
 
Join Date: 07 Jun 2008
Gender: male
Posts: 5,933
Default

Even though I absolutely don't want to go deeper into the "Jon was forced to do WAN in 2013 discussion", here's why it wasn't intended that way:
- Jon talked about "the band taking a break" a few times near the end of the 2011 tour. Being the hands-on guy who wants to be in control of everything, he wouldn't have said that if he knew they'd have to be back in the studio the next spring.
- Tico's refusal to go back and play on tracks that early because Jon had promised them a break and he didn't feel ready to go back that early.
- Richie wouldn't have planned a solo album, had they known beforehand that there was one more album due to be delivered within about a year.
- Jon's talks about a possible solo album in that era.

The record company had been planning the big anniversary release of New Jersey for 2013, a band album in 2014 and some whatever-contractual release in 2015. This would've added up in the timeline since 2013 was the 25th anniversary of the New Jersey album, there would've been the room for proper solo endeavours or simply breaks and they could've re-gathered around 1.5 years later for the next album.

I'd even go as far as saying that if they had stuck to that schedule, we'd still roughly have a Bon Jovi of 2011 with only natural further decline in music and voice instead of the train wreck there is today.
__________________
Check out what's becoming the biggest Bon Jovi touring website: https://bjtours.jimdo.com/
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-14-2020, 04:17 PM
Thinny's Avatar
Thinny Thinny is offline
Senior Member
Dry County
 
Join Date: 30 Jul 2013
Location: Leicester
Gender: male
Posts: 1,795
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi90 View Post
I'd even go as far as saying that if they had stuck to that schedule, we'd still roughly have a Bon Jovi of 2011 with only natural further decline in music and voice instead of the train wreck there is today.
I whole heartedly agree with this statement. I think it was WAN that broke the camels back when a decent break was really what everyone needed! If WAN had never happened I think the band would be in a very different place now.
__________________
Thinny
http://www.thethincontroller.com/
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11.
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.