11th April 2017 - Air Canada Centre, Toronto Night 2 Thread

Definitely???

Right. Though it's to be expected that 90% of the set list is identical, in order not to be unfair to people who are *not* going to both nights, but only on night 2 for example, at least rotate the *new* songs, let the hits and the rest as it is, and *then* throw in another bone in the encore. That's all you gotta do really...

Agreed. Shouting or not, his tone was good, the notes were mostly right, and it had feel and some edge to it.

I just don't understand why he can sound so good/strong on songs like this, and generally so weak on most of the rest. Sure, it's about straining your voice not too much, but still, other than on a few notes, he doesn't sound too strained here, and also not like he's really shouting. It's just a different technique, and probably one he couldn't sustain the whole evening and tour, but would be great if he could...

It's because he has two ways of singing. He has his new way, which his worked on, which is a soft way of pronouncing and singing putting less strain on his voice, but not a great deal of power. Then he has an older way of singing, where basically he is just forcing the notes through his throat / neck to hit the notes.

When he got a return to good voice in 2008, he was signing naturally and correctly. As he started loosing his range later on, he started forcing the notes singing from the neck, going very red in the process in 2013's. This was the decline of his voice for me. This forcing of the notes has caused him the detoriation that we see today. If he had 20 shows to go in 2013, rather than drop the songs, or not attempt the notes, he forced them.

For this new tour, for most of the show, you get the new softer tone without the power. To sing a song like always, his mixing it with the softer tone, then using the old bad method to hit the other notes. This is why sometimes after over using this, you find his shot for songs that follow it. His stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea. I've seen two of my singing friends burn there voices out doing this bad method of singing, both ended up with nodules and had operations, both now sing in a more gentle tone.

Mabs

This sounds logical, but one thing I keep wondering: He's obviously (and reportedly) been working with a vocal coach to maintain what's left of his voice and to discover that new softer way (almost whispering at some parts) which you described earlier.
But why can't they work out a proper technique for him to sing a song like Always? This performance shows that he at least still has the ability and a bit of range to hit these notes. But if the range is there, there's gotta be a way to hit these notes without forcing them and straining his chords that much?

This reminds me of the two Tokyo shows in 2010. Those were the only Asian dates of the tour so the expectations were pretty big but the set lists were identical except for Raise Your Hands replacing Have a Nice Day on the second night. Of course the performance were miles better back then but anyway, I remember the reactions being quite harsh.

Anyway, this is pathetic. They could have mixed up the set list with at least 7 songs without having to rehearse anything. Throw in Runaway, Working Man, Because We Can, Blood on Blood, Saturday Night, Devils, Living With the Ghost and you have a different show.
But no... Why go the extra mile? The band has only done it for their entire career so this seems like a good tour to change that.

I thought that was a decent outro by Jon on Always. He didn't try to force a really high note on the last "rhyme", and it sounds totally fine that way. I recall a couple performances from years ago where he did the "shine" and "rhyme" more understated, and it was fine.

I love Phil's outro solo on this!


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That's what I'm wondering, too. I sing quite a bit myself, and since I hadn't had vocal lessons, I too "force" the notes sometimes, which leads to fatigue on the muscles/vocal chors/whatever after some time, and needs some time to relax, before I can hit high notes again. But there's notes in BJ songs that I cannot hit at all, so if he still *can* hit those notes, there must/should be a proper technique to do so, since his *range* is obviously not shot/lost for good...

Jon's desperation to prove he can still sing Always is actually sad. As if that one song (even sung well) would smooth over the deterioration in the rest of the set vocals. I don't even think he's trying to appease the fans or critics of his voice, I think he's trying to convince himself he still has something to hold on to. That's pretty sad.

I truly do get the attitude of "it's better in person" and I'm glad people mostly seem to be enjoying the shows. I hope that continues.

But, seeing and hearing them (Jon) now, is more often than not just embarrassing to me.

I say that as I fan and someone who has been fortunate enough to see them at their untouchable best.

I used to take great pride in showing the naysayers just how amazing a live band they were. These days (no pun) I literally cringe at the thought of those types of people hearing Jon. I don't want him to be judged like that - I know who the real JBJ is/was. I've seen it live. There's tons of YouTube footage that backs it up. He was immense. No other word.

He's so far removed from that guy that it's almost like two different people. And I get why. There's lots of factors at play. I'm not oblivious. This is just how I feel.

So while I still think THINFS is great and want them to continue making albums, I think my live affinity with them is sadly over.

I'd LOVE to be proved wrong, and sincerely hope Jon can somehow get back to a decent level.

And if people are still enjoying the live shows, that's great. Bon Jovi gigs hold some of my best memories. Biased or not, when that band click there's something magical. That's their legacy to me.




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Always sounded somewhat decent . And Phil is becoming more and more impressive as well...

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