[jovifan93]

Originally Posted by symbeline

Well, I didn't have the patience for what they had become since HAND so I hit the pause button for some years, but I certainly didn't tell anyone how they should feel or tried to convince them not to support such abysmal albums. I practice what I preach but I don't lecture. We spent the money somewhere else and I didn't regret it one bit...
But my point was that I respect that they want to stay relevant and have something to say and even the people who don't care about them give them props for having had a long and very successful career after hitting their peak. But I also think that they should stand by their work if they want me to treat all that big integrity speeches seriously. Even if I don't like them, ignoring whole albums feels as if they are saying "nah that was shit, we didn't put too much effort, wanna forget about it... next" or at the least just needing an excuse to tour again (I only accept the "it was shit" excuse for Fahrenheit because they really didn't have control over their output at that point).

I've said the same a hundred times here and discussing the band with the couple friends who are still fans: if they had kept the songs that were working every tour and gave a few more chances to the ones that didn't go as well as predicted but they believed in them, now they'd have many many familiar songs to choose from and keep everyone happy. Even if an album/single tanked they still did promo, it was on the radio for a time and it has an official video. Chances are, people who like BJ have heard of those songs, even if they don't buy the albums or don't keep up to date.

It's really simple. You have 2-3 singles for album post-Crossroad, you add them to your non-hits singles list and rotate them but make that section a staple. And then add the album cuts that work live, and you rotate them too (they have plenty to choose from). So now you have almost 20 songs to choose in addition to the hits, the 4-5 new songs and Jon's faves (which to be fair are just a couple). That makes a basic setlist for the usually safe NA leg that casuals will like because it has both hits and familiar songs, and diehards won't probably complain too much because there'll be variety with so many y songs to choose from. And the new songs from that tour will become familiar and hopefully one of the album cuts will work and you can add it to the always growing setlist. Easy peasy!

I know Jon's voice dictates most of what he can sing now so it's a moot point, but in the recent past every tour meant ditching almost everything older than the current album, and then pretending the songs should be forgotten because they didn't work... of course they didn't if you don't give them a chance again! People will forget about them, same as they would forget WGIGO if they stopped playing it altogether. It's not a fun song the audience luuuurves because Jon shake his ass, it's a (horrible) song that it's been played to death, no wonder everybody knows it! And that works for any overplayed post-2000 non hit song.


Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

100% agreed.

[rolo_tomachi]

Originally Posted by Becky

MSG is postponed due to bronchitis. See Billboard. So, everyone can be happy now, right? He's taking care of his health. Maybe there is enough time for people to get refunds on flights and hotels. One thing is certain-- if you do travel for shows, you should be wise enough to pay the flight and booking insurance to cancel if needed.

Damned if you do...damned if you don't.

Yes, we are happy now. Health always comes first. Imagine that Jon on the SWW tour would have taken his recovery time when his voice was shot due to exhaustion and exhaustion, the cancellation of some shows would have been the correct thing, then we would have had a spectacular tour. You do not have to force your health for a couple of nights of work, because it could endanger other shows, and what is worse, could further damage your voice and your health, leaving sequels during the rest of the tour.

This is work ethic, Matt. If he are not able to work, don't go. Rest, recover, and return healthy and strong.

[Gabriel Shoes]

Originally Posted by symbeline

Well, I didn't have the patience for what they had become since HAND so I hit the pause button for some years, but I certainly didn't tell anyone how they should feel or tried to convince them not to support such abysmal albums. I practice what I preach but I don't lecture. We spent the money somewhere else and I didn't regret it one bit...
But my point was that I respect that they want to stay relevant and have something to say and even the people who don't care about them give them props for having had a long and very successful career after hitting their peak. But I also think that they should stand by their work if they want me to treat all that big integrity speeches seriously. Even if I don't like them, ignoring whole albums feels as if they are saying "nah that was shit, we didn't put too much effort, wanna forget about it... next" or at the least just needing an excuse to tour again (I only accept the "it was shit" excuse for Fahrenheit because they really didn't have control over their output at that point).

I've said the same a hundred times here and discussing the band with the couple friends who are still fans: if they had kept the songs that were working every tour and gave a few more chances to the ones that didn't go as well as predicted but they believed in them, now they'd have many many familiar songs to choose from and keep everyone happy. Even if an album/single tanked they still did promo, it was on the radio for a time and it has an official video. Chances are, people who like BJ have heard of those songs, even if they don't buy the albums or don't keep up to date.

It's really simple. You have 2-3 singles for album post-Crossroad, you add them to your non-hits singles list and rotate them but make that section a staple. And then add the album cuts that work live, and you rotate them too (they have plenty to choose from). So now you have almost 20 songs to choose in addition to the hits, the 4-5 new songs and Jon's faves (which to be fair are just a couple). That makes a basic setlist for the usually safe NA leg that casuals will like because it has both hits and familiar songs, and diehards won't probably complain too much because there'll be variety with so many y songs to choose from. And the new songs from that tour will become familiar and hopefully one of the album cuts will work and you can add it to the always growing setlist. Easy peasy!

I know Jon's voice dictates most of what he can sing now so it's a moot point, but in the recent past every tour meant ditching almost everything older than the current album, and then pretending the songs should be forgotten because they didn't work... of course they didn't if you don't give them a chance again! People will forget about them, same as they would forget WGIGO if they stopped playing it altogether. It's not a fun song the audience luuuurves because Jon shake his ass, it's a (horrible) song that it's been played to death, no wonder everybody knows it! And that works for any overplayed post-2000 non hit song.


Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

Very good arguments.

Just want to add on top of the set list part, well, it's their fault. They could have done exactly what you said and rotate Bed Of Roses, Always and This Ain't A Love Song but they ignored completely TAALS for many, many years. It had a good chart performance in the US market and was huge in Europe, Asia and SA. I'm using TAaLS as an example, but there are many singles that they just ignored and they could have done a better job with it.

[jovifan93]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Shoes

Very good arguments.

Just want to add on top of the set list part, well, it's their fault. They could have done exactly what you said and rotate Bed Of Roses, Always and This Ain't A Love Song but they ignored completely TAALS for many, many years. It had a good chart performance in the US market and was huge in Europe, Asia and SA. I'm using TAaLS as an example, but there are many singles that they just ignored and they could have done a better job with it.

I get your point, but personally I am glad TAALS is not played so much. Just a mediocre song in my book... But you're right about Bed Of Roses and the point itself. Throw in Thank You For Loving Me, hell even Bells Of Freedom or something like that. Oh, and I'll Be There For You of course!

[symbeline]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Shoes

Very good arguments.

Just want to add on top of the set list part, well, it's their fault. They could have done exactly what you said and rotate Bed Of Roses, Always and This Ain't A Love Song but they ignored completely TAALS for many, many years. It had a good chart performance in the US market and was huge in Europe, Asia and SA. I'm using TAaLS as an example, but there are many singles that they just ignored and they could have done a better job with it.

I admit that I'm simplifying, I can understand why they don't like to revisit some songs/albums, but I don't accept the "it sold poorly, nobody likes it, what a shame but it is what it is" excuse. Stand by your damn work! Fvck what you think other people will think. It's not as if they never overplay a song nobody cares about! It's not as if those albums sold 100 copies! It's not as if you didn't play for half a million people once and now pretend nobody had the chance to know the songs! (I'm referring to Bounce of course)...

Maybe I just can't wrap my head around it, how can you share a piece of your work that is admittedly the best you have to offer in that moment and then accept defeat so easily? As a fan they make it very hard for me to accept their bullshit when they are gushing about their latest album, and then the inevitable happens, if you have a low tolerance it comes a day when you say FU but no thanks. (or more politely, if you are a nicer person than me)

The TD songs have an added layer that makes me give them a pass though: they are difficult to sing, so if it's a matter of voice preservation I can understand ditching them where they didn't work. The rest of the albums... sorry but not

[bonjovi90]

Originally Posted by jovifan93

I get your point, but personally I am glad TAALS is not played so much. Just a mediocre song in my book... But you're right about Bed Of Roses and the point itself. Throw in Thank You For Loving Me, hell even Bells Of Freedom or something like that. Oh, and I'll Be There For You of course!

If we're talking about a mediocre ballad - Thank You For Loving Me shouldn't be near the setlists in my humble opinion!

[jovifan93]

Originally Posted by bonjovi90

If we're talking about a mediocre ballad - Thank You For Loving Me shouldn't be near the setlists in my humble opinion!

Yeah, I figured someone would say that. But it's a more classic ballad IMO, whereas TAALS is too bluesy/R&B for me, at least in the verses. A matter of personal taste I'd say...

[Falco]

Originally Posted by Becky

If you have to travel to any show you attend, pay for a hotel room, and only get 2 personal days to take off a year at work, you appreciate the effort of doing a shorter show over no show. It's not like you can easily and inexpensively book another flight and get a sick note from the artist to keep your boss from docking your pay if you miss another two days for a rescheduled show. So saying that fans are stupid to appreciate the effort is what is bullshit.

Geez, why would anyone willingly work for a company that only gives 2 personal days? Lol. I get 7 personal days, 15 vacation days, and 10 holidays to use. That's crazy! Sorry, just in shock hearing people get 2 personal days! Should be a crime!

[Johny]

Originally Posted by Falco

Geez, why would anyone willingly work for a company that only gives 2 personal days? Lol. I get 7 personal days, 15 vacation days, and 10 holidays to use. That's crazy! Sorry, just in shock hearing people get 2 personal days! Should be a crime!

Sorry but what's the difference between those three types of days? In my country, we just have a number of days (4 week by the law, usually they give you five) we can take off.

Sorry that's offtopic, I'm just curious.

[Captmorgs]

I watched a few videos from Pittsburgh. First of all, I didn't think Jon's vocals sounded THAT bad. And the dude singing Born To Be My Baby was awesome. I actually have more respect for Jon trying to gut this out. From his comments, it seemed like he was really trying to make it as much fun as possible for the crowd, given the circumstances. He still gave it all he had on the "livin' on a prayer!" before the solo. I know it's different if you're not fortunate enough to see the band multiple times, but I don't question his decision to try to do the show.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk