All the dates? It sucks!

Hmm, so if one really wanted to twist things around, one could say that since it's the U.S. economy that's responsible for bringing the European economy down, the U.S. people are ultimately to blame for us Europeans missing out on the Bounce Tour. But we don't want to twist things around that much.

Hey, don't blame me if that's the way my local paper has presented the situation to be. I remember reading about some major lay-offs already, esp in the car industry and airline business, but I also remember readind that many U.S. folks are living on credit and spending more than what they could afford, without realising how bad the situation really is over there. Various pension programmes and whatever are in major trouble, and ordinary health insurances are getting so expensive that ppl can't afford them, etc etc etc.

Then again, I'm no expert in economics, so what do I know. For instance, it seems logical that the reason people cut down their spending is that they don't have as much money to spend as before, but still "a decline in consumer spending" is considered to be a major factor which causes the overall economy to go down. I mean, how can people spend more money and increase consumer spending if they don't have anything to spend? Guess all this economy stuff is too much for my blonde head to handle. Especially since I've never had to worry about spending money as I've never had any "extra money" to spend anyway.

That's YOUR opinion, Fredrik. I think the music is just as good, in some cases better (and in some cases, there are songs I can't stand.) But that's MY opinion. How can it be about making money? Anything you read will tell you that record sales and the record industry is not what it was. Touring - the tickets are among the most reasonably price in an unreasonably priced industry and it would seem that the challenge is not to make a ton of money but simply not to lose a shitload of money while touring. Yes, they did have families back then - one and two year old who weren't in school... that's a big difference. If you're losing the passionate feeling about the band, that's OK. But in the end, it was only ever about the music anyway. Life moves on. Things change. So do people. So does this band. If not, we'd all be stuck in a time bubble.

Sure Derek, you make some good points and of course it's only my opinion. I just feel that it's more about making money than pleasing the fans. And for that I'm not talking about ticket prices but of the obvious fact that they tour very few places. I don't think many of you can disagree on that fact. Of course the band changes, just as life does, and I'm not against the band changing (as some people still would like it to be like it was during the 80's).
It's just an evitable fact though that if you are in a band that are as big as Bon Jovi are it comes with a responsibility and dedication. And that dedication is to do what you like and please the people that like it. And how can the please the people? Of course with records and concerts. But what happens when they are not as passionate about touring as before? If their worldwide fans (that isn't just limited to Japan, half of Europe and the most parts of US) never get to see them live it will eventually lead to that the people that never gets a concert will stop listening to them and buy the records. So what is better. Touring for a few more weeks or loose a great deal of their fanbase?
And no, I'm not saying that this will happen overnight but over a longer period of time, for certain. Just look at me, I've been a longtime BJ fan and love their music but if I never even get to see them live again, tell me the fun in that?

If you like a band's music and they don't tour where you live, you stop liking the band's music? That's a lackluster fan. If you like the music, you like the music. Exacting your "revenge" upon an artist because they won't come and do concerts in your part of the world is short-sighted. You'll sacrifice a great CD on the basis that you're revolting against a band that won't play a concert in your area? Well, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face - you lose out on great music (not just live, but recorded too.) Just accept that the band may not play your area and live with it. Being less passionate about the band is one thing - deciding you are no longer a fan base don the principle that you can't see them live... that benefits no one, least of all yourself if you're a real fan of the music.

Whenever the band does/doesn't do something that someone does/doesn't approve of, how come the easiest complaint is that it's all about the money? There's some deep-seeded resentment about money that always pops back up. The bottom line is this: we, as fans, are not entitled to anything. The band puts out an album - we get great music. The band does a concert - we get a great show if we can and/or if we choose to buy a ticket. Beyond that, there is no obligation on behalf of the band. They are not our puppets/

I wrote the following on the Backstage Board as a reply to Jovimimi's post where she was asking, among other things, would the American fans like Bon Jovi as much as they do now if Bon Jovi weren't from America, and is nationality in general an important thing when people choose which bands they listen to.

I know what you mean Mireille, believe me I do... And I also have to agree with you.

Even though Bon Jovi is an American band and all that, it still breaks my heart to see how the rest of the world seems to be getting much less of everything than the U.S. It makes me sad because there was a time, not so long ago, when Bon Jovi was a truly international band... But what really breaks my heart is that people in various parts of the world -- Australia, Asia excluding Japan, certain parts of Europe, the whole of Africa and South America -- who have been supporting Bon Jovi continuously through all these years and who at one time used to get shows to reward their loyalty are still not getting anything, even though the U.S. is now getting what, almost 40 shows on just the first leg of the tour. It's almost like getting a slap in the face, if you ask me.

And on top of the tour, everything else seems to be about the U.S. too -- you got Superbowl and all the other NFL stuff, the Target CD, various ad campaigns, TV specials & documentaries and a lot more press stuff than the rest of the world (People, Cosmo, etc). I don't think I'm wrong when I say that most of the Bounce promotion in general has taken place in the U.S. Granted, my personal "Bon Jovi scale" only reaches over the 90's, so I can't really comment on how it was back then or in the 80's if you compare the stuff America and the rest of the world got. And truthfully, even if I had been a fan right from the beginning (instead of 1988/1989), I probably still wouldn't know how it all was in the U.S. then cause I live over here. But still, the change from 1995/1996 to 2001/2002 or even to 2000 is quite dramatic -- entire continents have been dropped out of tour schedules, not to mention smaller areas or individual countries. The amount of promotion taking place outside the U.S. has also gone down, whether that be measured in the amount of newspaper/magazine articles, TV specials or actual promotional appearances.

Like Mireille said, it seems that Bon Jovi is becoming (or has already become) an increasingly American band and less of an international band. I guess us non-US-folks can only hope that the tables will turn again at some point...

you know, derek, that is very easy for someone to say who lives in the usa. after all, you get many concerts there. i am not complaining, because we have some concerts here in germany but i can see where fredrik is coming from.

if you really like a bands music it is pretty harsh if you can never see them live. i think the concert experience is one of the things that just belongs to the music, especially to ROCK music. fredrik was not saying he wouldn't be a fan anymore if BJ never did any concerts in sweden, but it takes part of the fun away from it don't you think?

not everybody is as lucky as the germans and americans!!!

Especially as IMO the live performance is the pinnacle of the BJ experience.
The argument comes down to the money as this is the main argument in defence of the predominantly US tour. The other argument is the family, which is fine - but then they could just extend the tour, they r hardly burning themselves out with the current schedule.
I know the band don't owe us anything etc.... But considering we r their customers, by not fulfilling many of our wishes / expectations, they will lose many of us. It is the same with a store selling...Cakes. They don't owe us a good variety of cakes, however if they don't offer it many ppl will shop elsewhere in order to get them. Many ppl still love the Live experience, & if they can't get to see Bon Jovi, they will turn their attention to other bands.

Sometimes I think we as fans can be too demanding, however when u see one country getting 5 or so shows & another with a page full of dates, then u r entitled to be annoyed at getting no dates yourself, esp. considering u have supported the band for many years & spent alot of money on them & r thus being robbed of the pinnacle BJ experience

Mike

Exactly!!!

I still think it's sour grapes. Absolutely be disappointed if the band isn't playing in your country - yes, it would suck. And yes, it's one element of the Bon Jovi experience you lose out on but that shouldn't make you less of a fan of the band or the music. Do you think classical music fans are really pissed off because they are obsessed with Mozart and he's not touring? See the point? If you like the music, you like the music. You can be disappointed that you won't see the live show but that shouldn't make you less of a fan or less interested in the band.

And don't tell me it's easy to say because I live in the U.S. - you have no idea how many or how few shows I've been to. No offense but, take out a map of the world. Look at how big the United States is. Now look at how big the countries in Europe are. Now take out a listing of all the concert dates in the U.S. and figure out the sizes of those venues... now check out the capacities of the places the band plays in Europe. Quite the difference. Do you realize how many arena shows the band would have to do in the US to come close to the number of people they could perform to at stadiums in Europe? You are comparing apples and oranges by focusing on how many dates are in the U.S. And there's no doubt the international status grew, especially in the early 90s when it seemed the US was turning their back on the band, but the band should want to devote as much attention to the US as possible since that's where there's the most work to be done.

The band is NOT CAKE. This isn't a simple consumer/product equation. When you buy a CD, you get great music (at least the band is happy with it - whether or not you personally like it is subjective.) When you have the chance to buy a concert ticket and if you're able to attend, they put on a great show. Beyond that, there is no 'the customer is always right' angle to this relationship. That's an old excuse some folks use to justify a sense of entitlement.

but having said that, isn't europe where they sell (or used to sell) the most records?