Are The Band at a Real Crossroads Live?

Ok : two underwhelming shows into the tour which at the moment seems no different to The Circle tour with the exception of What About Now songs in the set instead of Circle songs.

Set lists are unimaginative at this early juncture (is that to do with 'American' crowds?), song placings within the setlists are odd and song choices are odd. The energy & enthusiasm for the live arena also seems to have gone.

The band are at a total crossroads with their live gigs (pun intended).

I think they have to sit down and honestly work out who they want to play for. Are they playing for the fans, the casuals or themselves?

They don't seem that enthused so I don't think they are playing for themselves anymore. They don't seem to have the courage to say that they just don't want to play certain songs anymore. Surely Jon in his heart of hearts never wants to sing 'bad medicine' ever again!!??

They aren't playing for the fans because we could list a ton of songs that we know would go down a storm with the repeat attendees / die hard fans & they aren't being played.

And so we come back to the conclusion that Jon first aired in the WWWB documentary that they are playing to the casuals. But I'm not even sure they are - do the casuals want to hear 4 songs from Lost Highway????

Live : the band are in a mess.

I wish Jon had the courage of his convictions to do a Springsteen and open up the whole of his back catalogue for inclusion live. Springsteen very much takes the stance of 'well, if you don't know the song, that's your look out'. Often with an unfamiliar song the strength of a band performance can carry it off anyway.

They need to tour with all bets off aside from the inclusion of 6-7 new songs and the core unit of :

Bad Name
Prayer
Wanted
Keep the Faith
It's My Life
Have a Nice Day

That's a recognisable hit one in every 4 songs.

Stick :

Always
I'll be there For You (or Bed of Roses)
In These Arms
Bad Medicine

In and that's 10 songs out of 25. Add 6-7 new ones and thats 17 songs leaving 8 for the die hards. 8 : Not Lost Highway songs but interesting stuff that would excite long time followers of the band heres my 8 :
Only Lonely
Wild is the Wind
Dry County
Something to Believe in
Hey God
One Wild Night or Bounce
I Am
Loves the Only Rule

Surely that's not too much to ask? And its enough for the casuals - a lazy greatest hit song ever 2-3 songs but also leaves enough space for the more die hard fan.

If I am going to a gig of a band that I only own a greatest hits package for I wouldn't expect to know every song that comes along, why does Jon pander to that fan?

I just don't think the band are happy anymore. When I saw Richie in London last October he played with more fire & enthusiasm than I've seen in years because it was new, different etc.
Its their own fault, they should be more selfish and play stuff THEY want to play, let the performances carry them through.

This is all opinion and conjecture but...

This is a reaction from Jon. He was under pressure to put out a GH but he didn't want to do the 'nostalgia' thing. So the record company let him make TC and it bombed, with the record company putting very little weight behind it.

He did the GH and tour and with this album, I think it's very much a last-chance saloon for the band to produce a successful album alongside a the record-breaking tours their bosses are accustomed to. So there is more effort on both sides. This is why What About Now is SUCH a Jon project, he has been given artistic freedom and an opportunity to prove he remains relevant.

He sees himself as a guy with a guitar and a story to tell. He is sick of begging for respect and feels he has an album that demands it.

I said in another post, this will go one of two ways; He will realise he has to go back to being a nostalgia act and switch the style/sets mid-tour to make sure they shift tickets and get good reviews - in which case he will take a long break after this tour and probably do a solo album and tour; or he will just plough on and do what he wants; not gaining any news fans and damaging the legacy he has spent 30 years building up.

I know a whole group of people going to the Isle Of Wight this year, just for the last day, just to see Jovi. Not massive fans but couples in their 30's and 40's who feel that it's an opportunity to see a band they've heard are the ultimate bar band... who just play big bars (Jon's quote). Make up your own mind if they'll bother seeing them again if Jon sticks to his guns.

Just to add... I am more than happy to admit that it is just my opinion that they aren't as good as they were... if other people like this new direction, then great. My belief is that it could signal the end of the band as we know it, depending on how Jon weighs touring success against his desire to be artistically credible.

I'll plead the 5th as anything I say that isn't kissing Jon's ass gets mine torn a new one.

Ok, first I'm going to answer you and then say to you what I want.

Answer:

Yeeeah, no. No different? The setlist had been totally changed up! There're The Circle songs as there were on the lastest concerts of the tour, the basic structure of BOB/YGLABN/BTBMB/WWBTF of the beginning that was a great rock opening has been taken out and lots of songs are out because they are playing new songs like they never did before, and we weren't born to follow had been putted near the end of the main setlist. They never play more than 3 new songs on a gig, yeah yeah, there're some exceptions sometimes but it's the normal rule. Maybe they played 4 on The Circle Tour in some concerts (when they played WWWB).
The setlist is a whole different story that in The Circle Tour IMO. They only letted some hits that can't be taken out and a few shitty songs like Captain and "It's All Right!".

I agree with this, this is not the setlist of a great arena rock band. The places where they put the songs make no sense and Jon doesn't even moved from his mic. Hell! He moved more when he played I'll Be There For You with the acoustic guitar on the Live 2011 tour, he was going from a place to other smiling, now that's gone. Might be something of the first concerts? Maybe. Or maybe that attitude and setlist is here to stay, at least for the American tour.

I think they already asked that themselves.

Maybe they are just playing for the money. Maybe because they just want to play lots of new songs like they did on the last gigs. About the Bad Medicine thing, is a song that has been played without stop since the Jersey Syndicate Tour. Really I've heard it live, everyone here did and they have, we got 39024823489234 live versions of it and they have other songs to fill the gap of it, I couldn't care less if they took it away for this tour.

Got nothing to say against it, the setlist they played is crap. Just crap. But maybe things will change when they go to Latin America, Europe or Asia, maybe they think "the americans wont move doesn't matter what we play, lets give them a bunch of new songs, it's the same thing anyway".

He said that he was playing to the casuals on that specific concert because it was a free one or a festival, I don't remember which of these two, and there was a lot of people that weren't fans so he got to make up a setlist for those people. And it was a smart move.

Yep.

Wait wait wait, "I wish Jon had the courage to open up the whole of his back catalogue"? I don't know shit about Springsteen as I couldn't care less about him or his music but did you follow The Circle Tour? The Live 2011 one? They changed the setlist from day to day, surprises every single night. I don't think any band (i don't know about Springsteen, though) do the rotation of songs and hits that Bon Jovi do, I remember reading on a magazine how they played 60 songs on only 3 gigs. Who do that? No one. And you can't forget about that because one, ONE, official concert.

They need to tour with all bets off aside from the inclusion of 6-7 new songs and the core unit of :

That core unit is on the concerts always, it never leaved and I don't think that it will anytime soon.

Yes! Or some other hits, they have more ballads than Always and I'll Be There. And more hits than Medicine or In This Arms (song that I love).

Also, as it been sayed before, you can't let out We Got It Going On. The crowd reacts well to it, it just does, that song is not leaving so get used to it. Like it or not, that song will become a must for the post-2007 Bon Jovi. They could swap it with Medicine as it have the same effect on the crowd, some days WGIGO and some days BM.

I think that 7 diehard songs is a lot, though I'd love to see that!

Jon isn't pandering to that fan as they're not playing that much of hits! Captain Crush is not a hit, neither is Lost Highway (as a song) and let's not begin about Whole Lot of Leavin' and more songs on the setlist. That's the weird thing, is not a setlist for the casual as the casual have no ****ing idea about those songs and it surely is not one for the diehard fans because of the same songs. The casual listener will want a rock concert (post 2000 pre 2000, doesn't matter, ROCK with flow between songs) with a few ballads, no this.

Might be. Maybe they don't care anymore.

What I think:

About this whole situation, first of all I think that one official gig is not enough to criticize the band but is a wake up call. I think they want to show up that they're not a nostalgia band anymore, they want to play the new stuff and they want to play songs from post-2000 records. Is that a bad thing? No, of course not. This isn't a greatest hits record, and they had a lot of hits in their career. If they took their top 40 songs on the UK or the US they fill a full concert, so it's pretty obvious that some songs will be let out on the gigs.

The thing is, you want to play new songs? Do it! They can do a better setlist with the same ammount of post-2000 songs and new songs, I did one here so you can see what I mean with it. A rock beginning, if Jon wants that acoustic moment instead of ballads ok, that might be interesting! And you can have a great setlist. The thing is, as I said before, the songs they choosed and the order.

Also, I don't get why people are biching so much about the playing of new songs without the record out. Bon Jovi have always did that! Look on this concert the record wasn't going to be out for more than a month! Maybe you didn't noticed it as they never played this much of new songs, but don't act like no band haven't played new songs before the record had been released ever because, love it or hate it, it's really really common.

tl;dr: choose better songs, the setlist flow sucks, do a post-2000 tour if you want, but do it right, you got the songs and the hits to do it. Jon, move a little more, it won't kill you. And give a rest to the Lost Highway songs for god's sake.

As I'm bored at work I'll just ramble on a bit, with stuff that's pretty much stating the obvious but indulge me anyway.

It's a disappointing start certainly, their setlists, in Europe at least, have always been close to being a fair representation of their catalogue. Despite how poor the last few songs have been, it was only 2011 when I saw the band last at HRC and I thought that setlist was pretty much spot on for anyone of any level seeing Jovi.

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/bon-jo...-13d37d65.html

Personally I would have changed Hallelujah for Bed Of Roses and got Runaway in at the expense of something like Crash, Sleep or Who Says but it flows, and it has a bit of everything (maybe a little light on Circle, but it was more GH by then).

As for now, they do need to have a bit of an overhaul to try and properly represent their catalogue. I do think they should pay more attention to songs that have been released as singles- those that have videos have been played on music television and can easily be found on Youtube and Vevo and whatnot nowadays, far more easily than songs like Crash.

Trying to squeeze it into a 26 song limit is quite difficult. Assuming 6 songs from What About Now (and I would hope that this continues and they are not put off by iffy crowd reactions so far- the album isn't out and they should just keep at it) then I would have the rest being the following:

Staples- Bad Name, It's My Life, Prayer, Wanted, 1 NJ Track, Faith, Who Says (In US), Always (In Europe)

I couldn't put my finger on which NJ track to be the staple- probably Bad Medicine, but it's so overdone, but yet it still works so probably assuming that.

Then they can still represent the rest of their catalogue evenly:

Bon Jovi: 0-1 songs: Runaway
Ideally I would have Runaway as a staple, and I think it should be played more often than not. Other songs would be nice, but thrown in occasionally (certainly more than now).

7800: None
Not gonna happen sadly, but again it would be nice to chuck one in as a very special rarity on the odd occasion, but we haven't missed anything from this so far, but a very occasion performance of Tokyo Road or In & Out Of Love would go down a treat.


Slippery: 1 from Never Say Goodbye, Wild In The Streets, I'd Die For You, Raise Your Hands
Slippery is covered by 3 staples, but is strong enough with plenty of fan favourites that another song could be put in. Alternate these 4 to keep them fresh over the course of the tour.

NJ- 1-2 from Lay Your Hands, Medicine, Born To Be My Baby, Livin In Sin, Blood On Blood, Wild Is The Wind, I'll Be There For You
Ideally I would have more from this album, but to evenly distribute some would have to go. With 1 staple and eother 1 or 2 rotated you would still have a decent sprinkling of well known songs.

KTF- 1-2 from I Believe, Sleep When I'm Dead, In These Arms, Bed Of Roses, Dry County
Again, my personal tastes would be to have a few more from KTF, but having KTF plus 1 other would be satisfactory.

These Days- 0-1 (USA) 1-2 (Europe) from Hey God, Pain, This Aint A Love Song, These Days, Lie To Me, Damned, Hard Letting You Go, Something To Believe In, Diamond Ring
Less for the US shows as it wasn't as popular so can easily get away with it, or even none. Just playing to the demographics. Slip in the title track occasionally for the diehards.
For Europe, up it to 2 easily- in fact, looking at the listing it shows we have actually been quite spoilt of late with these songs so there is plenty to choose from.

Crush- 1-2 from Say It Isn't So, Just Older, Crash, One Wild Night
Compared to These days, criminally under represented. Having 1 of these + IML wouldnt change the status quo if Crash is used, but it would be nice if that one slipped back into rotation rather than the unnecessary staple that it is, and give one of the others a new lease of life.

Bounce- 1-2 from Everyday, Misunderstood, Hook Me Up, Bounce, The Distance, Open All Night
Again, underused but easily represented should they want to. Clocking in at less than 3 minutes, Everyday could easily be squeezed in- plus it has a decent video, was a popular hit in Europe at least and is upbeat to get the crowd going. Could add another, even if its a Jon song like OAN.

Have A Nice Day- 2 (Europe) 1-2 (USA) from Have A Nice Day, Welcome, Who Says (Europe), Last Man Standing, Bells Of Freedom
Using Who Says as a staple at US shows (as it should be there) one of the others would be fine.
In Europe, Who Says needs a rest- although it was a single, and we all know it, but I would like it to be in rotation. Welcome to Wherever You Are is underplayed for a single (as is AALY to the point that I don't include it) but HAND should be played more often than not, but again still not a need to always have it in/

Lost Highway- 2 (maybe 2-3 in USA) from: Lost Highway, Summertime, Memory, Leavin, We Got it Going On, Any Other Day, I Love This Town
Absolutely played to death over the last few tours, but the songs are still decent and need some representation. Just not as much as they currently are, and not the same ones. Any 2 from above will be fine, maybe an extra one for the states or when Jon wants to please himself.

The Circle- 2 from Follow, Superman, Beautiful, Loves The Only Rule, Thorn, Happy Now
As we have just come off The Circle tour, it need not stick around so much, but the album needn't be dumped and forgotten like Bounce is. A few of the staples can remain, again if changed up a bit more, and there's still a few fan favourites in there. Follow needs rotating rather than being a staple even if the position is moved.

Other- 1-2 from Saturday Night, Blaze Of Glory, Richie Song, Boxset Track, Cover or rarity
Sat Night should be slipped in more often than not in Europe- it really gets a good reaction probably as it benefiting from the post-Always popularity.

So a setlist examples mixing it up from above could be:

1 ARMY OF ONE/BECAUSE WE CAN/ANOTHER NEW SONG TO OPEN (Extended drum intro)
2 BAD NAME
3 RUNAWAY
4 BECAUSE WE CAN/ARMY OF ONE
5 WHATS LEFT OF ME
6 ITS MY LIFE
7 LOST HIGHWAY
8 RAISE YOUR HANDS
9 WILD IS THE WIND
10 CAPTAIN CRASH
11 BLAZE OF GLORY
12 SUPERMAN TONIGHT (ACOUSTIC)
13 AMEN OR THE FIGHTER (ACOUSTIC)
14 BED OF ROSES OR I'LL BE THERE FOR YOU (ON CIRCLE)
15 THAT'S WHAT THE WATER MADE ME
16 WHO SAYS YOU CAN'T GO HOME
17 THORN IN MY SIDE
18 EVERYDAY
19 WHOLE LOT OF LEAVIN
20 HAVE A NICE DAY
21 LIVIN ON A PRAYER

ENCORE
22 DRY COUNTY/THESE DAYS
23 I'M WITH YOU
24 WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE
25 BAD MEDICINE
26 KEEP THE FAITH

Edited for too much Everyday action!

That looks nice to me. Plenty of new songs, never too far away from a hit and most of the back catalogue represented in some form, and plenty of scope to change it night by night. It pretty much follows the lengthy rubbish Ive typed above mainly for the US leg, so mix in the odd These Days track plus Always for Europe.

Hopefully they will find their stride with the setlists while accommodating the new stuff- the last tour the setlists really couldn't be much better for the most part and it flowed beautifully. They have just made the wrong changes and kept some stale numbers in. I'm sure they will hit their stride as the tour goes on. It's all opinion anyway, feel free to tell me i'm talking out of my arse but that's with a pool of songs which doesn't even include any mega-rarity for the most part, with songs performed over the last few tours.


In summary for anyone not as clinically bored at work as me:

If the band lose their good reputation as a live band, they might as well pack it in.
I think Jon is surrounded by people who won't tell him the truth. He desperately needs to get in touch with his fanbase. He will lose them, if he stays in his own bubble. Too bad his bandmates are too chicken to call him out on his pretentious bullshit...

I agree. And maybe I'm in the minority, but if Jon continues to perform with the same stage presence he did in DC, I'll lose interest.

Aloha !

I disagree a bit with what you say, though I posted most of my thoughts in a thread I made years ago:

http://www.drycounty.com/jovitalk/sh...ad.php?t=48266

Obviously the balance is a bit different now with more records out but still, the basic thoughts of how albums should be represented is quite similar to yours. There's only a few things I'd change in regards to what I said back then and that's how you build up your set.

That said, I didn't know you were such a big fan of Everyday.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

The setlists are an early fans nightmare.

I can see why people wont go cos the albums that started the band on the rise to where they are now are being ignored for post 2000 slop.

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/bon-jo...-13d37d65.html

Come the IOW show I reckon the set list above will be something like that.