Expensive or not - that is the question...

Well, I was thinking about writing this post for a long time but really didn’t have enough time for that before. We all know how much BJ ticket prices bother some of the people over here and how many threads we’ve had on that. I think it even turned out to be #1 disappointment of TC Tour for some. And the main conclusion was the prices are ridiculously high. And I am not saying they are not, because I’d love them to be cheaper, but I have never complained about them. And I have to say that I am quite surprised who actually complains they are expensive. I think that most people on this board are from US, Canada, Western Europe and Australia. From my perspective those are the countries that stand really well economically, yet most of the complains were from those parts of the world I think. Those who live there probably think they are in economic crisis at the moment but I can only tell you that what’s considered crisis for you, for us in Poland would be paradise.

Anyway I thought it might be interesting for someone to have a look at the prices from a different perspective. I will try to give simple facts to let you look at this a little bit differently. And I am not even talking about prices for BJ tickets or anything BJ related only, but for any goods also. But BJ related things are easier to compare between us – fans.

First of all, your currencies are stronger of course. Here are present exchange rates, that will also help calculate things later on (PLN stands for Polish Zloty, our currency): £1=4,60PLN ; $1=3PLN ; €1=4PLN ; $1 (AUD)=2,95PLN

Secondly, minimum wages/per hour before tax (guaranteed by governments of particular countries):
Poland – this is hard to tell as usually in Poland you get monthly payments. In Poland for 2011 minimum income/per month before tax is 1386 PLN, which is 1039 PLN after tax, health care and pension (in 2010 it was about 70PLN less). So considering a month 22 working days, 8 hours per day it is 176 hours per month, that gives us 7,87 PLN/h before tax, and 5,90 PLN/h after tax, health care and pension.
UK - £5,93/h (£1043/month) - in my country it is £1,71/h (3,47 times less)
USA - $7,25/h ($1276/month) - in my country it is $2,62/h (2,77 times less)
Ireland - €7,65/h (€1346/month) - in my country it is €1,97/h (3,88 times less, by the way until the end of 2010 it was €8,65/h so the difference would have been even bigger)
Australia - $15/h (AUD) ($2640/month) - in my country it is $2,67/h (5,62 times less)

So it seems it’s about 3-6 times difference. As I don’t know what are taxes, health care and pension fees in all other countries you can do the math for yourself, how much is left in your wallet. I can tell you that in Poland they take a lot from us. Of course those minimums are only an example. I’d say that in Poland people mostly get about 1200-2500PLN/month after tax, health care and pension. If they get more it means they are highly skilled professionals. But the average incomes in your countries would go up significantly too, even more than ours, I am sure of that (based on my personal experience of working abroad).

So that was theory part and now real life. Here’s an example how much the trip may cost a typical fan from Poland to see BJ show in London, based on my trip to O2 in London last year. It included: return flights by Ryanair (low-cost airlines) from my hometown of Gdansk to London Stansted, return coach from the airport to London city centre, tube tickets in London, 1 night in a 2-star hotel close to O2, meals and drinks in London (cheapest possible, fish&chips style), 2 x BJ tix for 25June (about £55/ticket), 2 x BJ tix for 26June (about £55/ticket).
It cost us about 2500PLN for everything above for 2 people. For any other citizen starting from my point, in his currency that would be (including how many hours he’d have to work for this in his country, based on minimum wages):
UK – £543 – 91,6h
US – $833 – 115h
Ireland – €625 – 81,7h
Australia - $847 (AUD) – 56,5h
Poland – 2500PLN – 317,6h

Again we pay and work about 3-6 times more. Nothing’s changed. So to compare the worst with the best. The ordinary Joe in Poland has to work almost 2 months to afford such a trip. An ordinary Joe in Australia has to work 7 days, so in fact he can easily do that and survive for the rest of the month (house rent, food, goods, savings etc.). And what about Polish guy? What about surviving for him/her, for 40 working days - without food, house and other basic needs and definitely no chances for savings? But also don’t forget that most of you do not have to leave your country to see BJ show. They come to your countries on each tour. That saves you lots of money too. Yet, still there are people from Poland who go to BJ shows abroad, because they don’t have any other choice to see them. And they save for those shows for months if not years. To see this probably ‘once in a lifetime show’.

And just to give you a look on ticket prices in Poland. For Polish artists it’s usually 50-100PLN/ticket. For world stars it’s about 200-600PLN/ticket. In November 2010 Lady Gaga performed for the first time in Poland in my home city in a brand new arena and the tickets were 209-650PLN. 650PLN were some kind of VIP tickets. To get close to the stage they had pit tickets-early entrance for 425PLN. And guess what, they sold 12 thousand tix and 15 is maximum in this arena. So I say the sales were great (and NO, I haven’t been to that show just in case you are curious, it’s not my type of music at all). And it’s like that for each world star. It’s always sold out (or very close) because we don’t get to see them often, even with this 'out of this world' prices (but it seems we got used to them). If someone thinks that Bon Jovi €100,€200 or €400 ticket is expensive, just multiple that 3-6 times and you’d get the amount of money we have to pay for the same ticket, compared to our wages. And if tickets prices are ridiculous for some of you, I wonder how many shows would you see if you lived here? Actually I wish I could pay for the tickets for any artist as much in my currency as you pay in yours.

If some of the numbers about the incomes in particular countries above are incorrect, please let me know. I just did some research on the web and that’s what I have found, but of course some of the info I found may be incorrect. But I think they are quite accurate and numbers look really unbelievable. Actually I was surprised the most with Australia results, that it is such a rich country, I have never realized that until now.

Any thoughts?

Aloha !

Yeah, what's the point of your illogical rambling that doesn't make any sense?

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Yeah, I'm from the Czech Republic, some kind of a southern brother to you and I definitely know what you are speaking about.

I did my trip to London last year and I paid only for what I needed: bus (cheaper than plane), ticket and minimum of food. I have to admit that I had a third row ticket - but I wouldn't do such trip there if I had a worse ticket.
Bus: 2100CZK = 73,2GBP = 86,8EUR
Ticket: 113GBP = 134EUR
Food ? (I had my own from home) + Transportation: Max 10GBP = 11,9EUR
Total: 232,7EUR (5631CZK)
I'm a student and I have a part time job at the Czech and Slovak central office of Tesco Stores, my wage is 80CZK/hour = 3,3EUR and I can't (legally) work more than 20hours/weak so it is 80hours = 264EUR but this never really happens because I have to go to school as well.

Being a student makes it different but it really bothers me that I can't go to as many shows as I'd like. You guys from USA, UK, Germany etc are very lucky to live in economically most powerfull coutries and the band plays a lot shows there. We are weak and we have to travel..

The numbers don't take into account any taxation as there is no way someone on minimum wage of around £6ph is taking home £1000 pm so it may well be overestimating the differences somewhat.

Brian, you are right, these numbers for UK, USA, Ireland and Australia don’t take taxation, health care and pension into account, as I don’t know how much that would be in those countries. That’s why I had to work on ‘before tax’ numbers. And I made it clear in the post. Actually I was hoping that people living in those countries could give us an estimate numbers about that (tax, health care, pension).

But I did put info how much it is in Poland. Before it’s 7,87PLN/h. After tax, health care and pension only 5,90PLN/h stays in Polish wallet. So to make it clear, the government takes about 25% from us for all of that!!! Tax is 18% but all those other things are extremely expensive too and take about 7% more. I really doubt that they take so much from those living in the mentioned countries. I am not even mentioning all the social benefits you get from your governments, which are way bigger than ours.

So actually even more money stay in your wallets after taxation and the difference between our countries would be even bigger I am afraid. That is the sad truth (for us of course).

Thanks for your example my southern brother It also clearly proves about 2-3 times difference between your country and Western Europe. It seems all of us in Eastern Europe somehow have to deal with this economic distance between us and the rest of the world (although it's not easy).

Is that the best that you can come up with? Seb, I am really disappointed with you this time. Which part is illogical for you? I gave you facts, strict numbers, not my personal opinions. If you can find any argument (fact) to prove I am wrong please share it with us all. But you will not make this economical gap between us disappear, no matter what you say.

You forget cost of living in US and Europe, even if you make $100,000/yr living in NYC is not much as you will paying close to $30,000 a year for rent or mortgage for a 1 Bed room apt in decent part of Manhattan, health care costs will set you back by another $7,000-10,000 a year.
And if you factor in cost of raising kids, child care, transportation, insurance on $100,000 a year u will barely survive after paying federal and state taxes

Your correct, imo someone who is making minimum wage in the US, is not going to a show cause they are working two jobs in order to pay the monthly expenses and even with that are probably behind on bills.

Exactly what I was thinking as I was reading through the thread. Also, when BJ play in other countries, I don't even consider going to the shows. If they played in other countries repeatedly and never visited mine, I would obviously be willing to make a 'special' allowance for it and spend the sorts of money you mention to get that once in a lifetime experience - I wouldn't think about seeing them at multiple shows or on consecutive tours though.