Expensive or not - that is the question...

Actually you misunderstood this part. So I will explain it more clearly for everyone…To understand what I mean and the real value of any currency you have to forget about currencies and exchange rates. I know it sounds weird at first but please give it a thought for a moment. I dare to say that all of us don’t care what are the currencies in other countries, what are their rates etc, because we do not live in those countries and don’t pay the bills over there so why should we care, right? All we care is how much money is on our bank account and how much we can buy for it in OUR country. I am talking about the money you and I earn and spend in OUR countries. All we care about are the digits on our account numbers, no matter if they are called dollars, euros, pounds or Polish Zloty. So the real purchase power of our currency in real life can be measured only on our home court, without exchanging the rates of domestic goods and services. Of course if we buy imported goods or services (like BJ show or BJ CD in my case) they are exchanged automatically (whether we like it or not) with the current rates and again all we care at the end is how much it is in our currency. So with that in our minds, let’s forget about currency symbols and take a look at the pure digits (we can call them credits, whatever you like). The info about minimum wages made me realize that in fact all of those digits or more or less very similar (apart from Australia). The only thing that differs them is the currency symbol on their side (especially between Poland, USA and Ireland – 7,67; 7,25; 7,65). And in all of those 3 countries, monthly incomes before tax are about 1300 (digits). Since most of people over here suggest that minimum wages are not good for comparison, let’s take a different example and take an average of 2500 (digits) per month, more accurate for average Joe. And NOW, let’s take a look how much everyone of us, in OUR countries, without exchange rates can buy for those 2500 (digits). By the way thanks for your examples because they helped a little bit to give more specific costs in USA, although I still have to say (and some people over here agreed) that cost of living in NYC is higher than in most of the USA, and my cost examples are based on my home city while in Warsaw (Polish capital and the biggest city) all of those costs are higher. Anyway, let’s go back to our 2500 digits in USA and Poland:


Now, please tell me, is the cost of living in Poland lower than in USA? How many of those products you can buy and how many can I buy in our countries (if both of us earned 2500)? That’s what I am trying to explain to all of you all the time. You claim that the cost of living in proportion to your wages is higher in your country, but is it really? It shows clearly that our costs are way higher than yours. Gas is the greatest example as you pay almost 6 times less for it. In the best scenario the proportion of some of the products in our countries are 1 to 1 (like accommodation). The rest is close to even or 2-4 times cheaper in USA. Bread would be the only one higher, but to tell you the truth you can buy bread in Poland for 6-8 PLN too. But that only one exception does not save your arguments in my opinion. I hope that’s clear enough now.

As for my perception of US…I was living and working in Manchester, NH. In NYC I was only for 4 days. While I was walking along all the skyscrapers in Manhattan I could not imagine any average Joe living in there. If I was wrong about it, I apologise, but that’s also a reason why I opened this thread and wanted people to join the discussion and give the examples of prices in their countries. I will not be able to check everything on the web. So thanks for clearing my mistake up.

I was there back in 1998, so a long time ago. I can admit that I was not aware that much of food prices, even at that time. I was living in my parents’ friends house and I didn’t have to pay for food and accommodation. But what I do remember are the prices of almost any other goods. And most of the stuff, compared to what I was getting ($5/h) seemed extremely cheap, compared to same products in Poland at that time. I am talking for example about gas (which was about $1/gallon if I remember correctly), clothes, any kind of electronics, cars, CDs etc (I bought my first BJ CDs back then exactly, I could not afford them before and had cassettes only).

During 3 months of living there I managed to see some USA – NYC (4 days) and Florida (about 10 days) with visiting all the theme parks and Kennedy Space Center. I paid for all the tickets to the parks and all the merchandise over there from the money I was earning. I spent a lot of money back then but I don’t regret a single cent I spent in USA. I can tell you that exchange rates at that time were $1=3,5PLN, so a little bit higher than now. Minimum wages in Poland at that time were 500PLN/month before tax!!! So about $142/month. You can count really fast that I was getting about $200/week while in Poland most of the people were getting $142/month. I felt like in heaven. If for example I could buy a pair of Nikes for $85 in Poland it would cost me about 300PLN, while 500PLN was monthly income!!! That says a lot, doesn’t it? I remember that apart from sightseeing I have spent almost all my money on everything I always wanted to buy and couldn’t afford it before. I have changed literally ALL the clothes in my closet, all of them brand names, like Levi’s which in Poland were unbelievable expensive. I bought a lot of stuff about NBA and Bulls (I was a huge Chicago Bulls fan back then and got to USA for the 2nd game of the NBA FINALS , won by the Bulls by the way), CDs etc. I think I came back to Poland with about $100 in cash but I didn’t care. That’s the view of the USA I have in my head, positives only. Manchester is a very calm, small town about 50 miles from Boston, and I really enjoyed spending time in there. I was 18 years old back then and that trip gave me the first impression of the Western wealth and the high quality of life. As you see in my previous post the differences now are not as spectacular as they were in 1998, but still after so many years you still lead much better lives and can afford much more than we can.

By the way I can tell a lot more about Irish economics as I have spent both summers in 2004 and 2005 in Dublin and paid for everything by myself, starting from food and finishing on accommodation. So I’d be more than happy to discuss about the quality of life with someone from Ireland too.

All I am trying to tell everyone here from those countries is so you could realize how blessed you really are and appreciate it a little bit more. And I hope you do not take my posts as an attack for you. That’s not my point at all. If I were you I’d be proud that I live in one of the richest countries in the world instead of trying to prove that it’s the other way. But I would also reconsider my thoughts before I start bitching about everything (in this case prices), unlike some of the people over here.

And one more thing. I think that being on this board is like having a key to one big treasure chest, but somehow some of you don’t appreciate it either. I am giving you some info about my country and you are giving me some about yours. I learn from you, and you learn from me. This is better than any tourism guidebook or news on TV. This is real deal and no propaganda that you can find in the media. This thread is supposed to be informative mostly, and anyone can do whatever they want with this info. If you still want to complain your life is tough, that’s fine. Like I said at the beginning I just wanted to give you a different perspective on things , prices etc. That’s all. If anyone felt offended I apologise, but some facts can’t be hidden under the carpet sometimes and I just wanted to share those thoughts with all of you.

Everybody is speaking about something different here

I think Kuba was only trying to say that going to a Bon Jovi show is super expensive for us, living in post-communism countries/middle-eastern Europe. More than for people in richer countries, who pay the same amount for a ticket as we do but they don't need to travel long distance to get there. 100€ for a German is "something", 100€ for Polish/Czech/Slovak/Hungarian is four times this "something" plus travelling, accomodation etc etc.

I just feel that some guys feel offended by Kuba saing this and need to prove how hard it is to live in US or elsewhere. If it is so difficult there, some of you guys must be really amazingly wealthy to do 20 shows per year or you don't eat or pay taxes...

I have been to England, Ireland, Germany, Austria and yes, something is much more expensive (again moreover for us) but the whole living there is different. Sometime I was really amazed with what the people are offered - you see it as standart but for us it is something new or not that common. I just don't have any valuable proof now. It is hard to explain.
Moreover, it is usual today that people living close to borders buy their benzin and diesel in Germany and Austria because it is cheaper there. Branded clothes are cheaper in Germany. People make trips, most commonly to Dresden to do some shopping, because it is cheaper and worth the journey.*

This leads to nowhere I think. Nobody has lived here as long as in Germany, UK, USA and Australie, so nobody is alble to clearly say. I was only surprised with some reactions, I didn't expect them.

* what I'm really curious about and I know I will never find it out - what is the real value of some goods. My techaer spent two week in Sofia and told us what is cheaper and what is more expensive there. And his conclusion was that people there earn much less money but the majority of goods is the same price. How is this possible. It depends on the country of course and how this can be grown here and there, costs of transportation of the goods but hell, some things are so general as milk for example. The marker is too much ruled by laws and taxes. I hear it everyday that we have to sell our meat somewhere and buy meat from somewhere and it is good for those people and bad for those people and this changes and changes.. I'm glad I don't study economy

I think you're getting confused with your calculations.

I know for a fact that gas is cheaper in Poland than it is in the UK and relatively speaking there's no way it is 6x more expensive than in the States.

If that was the case then no one could afford to drive.

Saying 2500 units of currency X has the same buying power as 2500 units of currency Y is a fallacy because it totally ignores the higher and lower costs of living in other countries which your whole argument is about. Prices across countries don't automatically divide into the differences between currencies.

simply put, and i know this first hand, speaking in average and generic terms, in Eastern Europe the basic things needed for a person's survival (accomodation + utilities) consume a higher percentage of their monthly income, leaving considerabely less disposable income for everything else.

Thank you Johny, that’s exactly what I meant. And not only about BJ shows, but about many goods. If they are expensive for them, for us they are super expensive. And even if they consider them expensive they still can afford them if they wanted to, but we can’t or we have to save for a long time to get them, definitely much longer than they do.

The problem is that we are living in one global village now. We watch same TV channels, same commercials, same products on the shelves of the shops or on the internet. We are not some kind of 3rd class human beings. Our needs are the same as theirs, but are limited by our incomes. In the those countries those limits can be broken much easier.

You read my mind very well. Can’t add anything else to that. It seems we were writing simultaneously and that’s pretty much what I have written above I think

There’s a saying in Poland “The rich man and the hungry man will not understand each other”. That’s the kind of feeling that I have in this thread. And I was surprised with some of the reactions too.

I am sure it is absolutely true ...I hope no one is discussing that

I just felt a need to quote this

I really love getting the info from the real people and not from teachers. I study English and History but nothing is more valuable than personal stories and experiances. I love reading it. Once I'd love to go to the USA, just to see it there. You hear about this country everyday, people here are a bit diifferent (but we're still the same ), so I'm really interested in seeing it here. And not because of skyscrapers which I think they are unbelievably ugly, but because of the people, I'm interested in what is the life of an American. I don't know if I'll be ever able to visit the USA but I hope so. So anything people say here is interesting for me, so I don't understand the "tone" of some people. Well, nevermind

Unfortunately it is 6x more (in proportion to incomes). I would love to pay as "much" for gas as Americans.

And that’s how it is sometimes. Many people can’t afford having a car. And not because of the car itself, but the costs of using it, where high price of gas would be the biggest factor. Some people that have a car use it only once a week or for very short distances (for big grocery shopping for example) because they can’t afford to drive more (especially students or retired people)

Even if my calculations are a slight simplification, they give you an idea, an overview of the big differences – about 2-4 times difference between the standards of living in our countries. Sometimes it’s more, sometimes it’s less. And that’s what it was supposed to be. I am sure many people were not aware of them.
What kind of costs of living do you think it ignores? Those that I put are some examples of many different costs of livings you have to make every month, no matter where you live (you have to eat, have a place to sleep, have fun sometimes etc.).

You have to use an exchange rate...it is non-sense not too... it is just numbers on a page.