Live stream of last gig in Brisbane Tues Dec 17

I completely agree we should be able to debate the good and the bad with each other – that was my point. This is a discussion board, after all. As was stated in a recent post; the majority of people are only here because they care/cared about this band and still believe they can deliver something close to their former glories.

Not in response to you but I’d hate for anyone who has criticised the band to be labelled a troll, I hope it’s not going to start to go that way. It’s not a stretch to think it might seeing as there was a time in the middle of this tour when ‘just bugger off and listen to These Days’ became a simple, generalist shorthand spouted by anyone who adored Jon and just could not deal with reading anything negative about him or the ban from pre-2000 fans or anyone who dared suggest that Jon could do better. For the record, I would LOVE Jon to have come out yesterday and sounded good. He didn’t. I don’t have any other band I have ever been drawn to or felt such an affinity with their music so I don’t pray for them to fail, I have always, blindly supported them in buying tickets and albums. But even the most ardent fans, those who have batted the truth away for the last three years have to admit that the difference in the way Jon sings, the songs he is able to sing, the way he sings from his throat and contorts himself, is all wrong and the sound coming out is, for the most part, completely dreadful.

Add to this the static set lists and the static front man - neither of which can be blamed on 'Phil X not knowing songs' and this tour has come across as something that Jon wanted to get out of the way, to put himself back at number one on the touring charts. If this isn't a means to an end, I would really love to know what his motivations are.

I know there are plenty of fans who love the songs they played this tour, as I have said, I am happy for those who left satisfied. But surely, for those who are mostly happy whatever Jovi do, then Jon putting the effort into getting his voice in shape, putting the guitar down and owning the stage even during songs like BWC would only improve shows for everyone.

True, but since people have different definitions of the words "quality", "average", and "mediocre", discussions are bound to happen I for example loved this tour, though I agree previous tours were better, and I like a good half of the album very much. Could it be rockier? Yes. Does it have to be? No. Does the production suck on some of it? Yes. Does that make it unlistenable to me? No. I could go on

Good thing is everyone is entitled to his opinion, which some people here sometimes seem to forget...

Of course everyone should be able to voice their own opinion, it makes for a good read actually. Just grinds on me when people feel they have to justify why they like what they hear.

Season greetings all by the way

And that is where we have different opinions. Since we both know how Jon sounded for the last couple of years, what did you expect him to sound yesterday? I think he didn't sound all that different to the last 1-2 tours. Ok, some songs were dreadful to listen to, even easy ones, but then there were songs like These Days and Always, which I thought he sang better than in the last couple of years. Probably because he knew it's the final show of the tour and he didn't have to take care of his voice and could give it his all, that's my theory at least.

Why he failed on some songs one can only theorize too - since most of them were in the first half if I recall correctly, maybe he doesn't warm up. Or maybe he has a hearing problem, take We Got It Going On for example. The first verse was completely off by a semitone at least, but the rest of the song was fine, and there are higher notes than in the beginning. It's strange...

Good idea, season greetings to you and everyone else too

Just what happened between this and now? It's a hell of a difference (and I'm not talking about Richie )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HNli...ature=youtu.be

That's the part I don't get - he didn't get out of breath at all during the early tours, despite running around like hell. And there were less band members saving his ass when he missed a vocal... did he just forget how to breathe properly?

As far as I am aware, he didn't smoke in the early days. Is he still smoking?

Jon smoked at a young age...I tell this story a lot but when I first saw them with my brother in 1985 opening for Ratt...after their set was done both he and Richie watched the Ratt set off the side of the stage and both were smoking. That was in the days you could smoke inside arenas, lol! Not sure if he's smoking now..no clue on that one.

Any idea why they (Jon) don't just play songs in lower key? They can tune every guitar in different tune if they wanted to. It's no big deal. Songs would sound much better and Jon could actually enjoy singing instead of suffering.

Only songs i enjoyed listening to were Diamond ring and Saturday night cause Jon didn't have to struggle with the vocals. Keep the Faith was a total mess. Never heard him singing that song so bad. Even Because we can caused problems for Jon.

Any thoughts?