No Richie on current leg of the tour

yo momma taking the piss

Though maybe some hope? Random article from yesterday;

Aside from the fact that your response is a tad sharp, as if Jackie has had a go at your mum, there seems to be a lot of people conveniently forgetting something here...

The 'personal reasons... ask him' thing was something that suited Jon down to the ground. I think we can safely say, from the sudden explosion of music and opinion from Richie at the point that he travelled to Australia last year, that whilst under contract, he was was unable to discuss things at length with the press or perform whilst under a contract to Bon Jovi. Now, the stock response to this from anyone who just loves to fellate Mr Bon Jovi is simply 'You don't know that, it's speculation'. Absolutely it is. But all that joy everyone took in bashing the sh*t out of Richie for going through intermediaries to crappy press outlets... and now he's a million miles away from that - anyone who has any idea how the press/media works will know how detailed these contracts can be and that includes being able to discuss things with mainstream media.

Jon spent months being lambasted by people did he? I never witnessed anything that came close to the relentless 'drugged-up, drunk, slurring, fat, bloated waste of space, jamming with fabric, Phil is ten times the guitarist you are' stuff that was thrown at Richie on a minute-by-minute basis on here and everywhere else. Including in the press. Jon, stood back and let it happen. So I can understand why RS is pissed. Can you imagine your parents/friends/record company/manager reading that and it NOT being true?

Both of them are able to act like total cocks. If Jon cared about the state of his voice half as much as he cared about the state of his abs, we'd still have a half decent lead singer to listen to. The tour was rushed; Richie was told 'play or leave' and he made the wrong decision - they both did. Some people have just turned it into an opportunity to spend a year and a half bashing the crap out of someone who made a mistake and should have stood his ground. But it's over and for those still going on and on and on and on and on about it... seems to me you couldn't have liked the guy very much in the first place and were waiting for an opportunity to slate him... so what's your problem?

If Jackie had been defending Jon, no one would have accused her of hijacking a thread...

Richie-Glasgow- wrecked!

Thanks, Beaky. I'm pretty sure that if that were the case I wouldn't have been told that I "make shit up" either. Of course that's just another of my theories...

Aloha !

The problem is Becky, that you're now accusing Richie of doing exactly the same things Jon's been doing for a good 10 years. It's only after the backlash of the WWWB documentary that he's changed his attitude a bit. But you've been defending your Jon over things like this over and over, yet when Richie does it, Jon's suddenly the victim? Your naivety in regards to how Jon handles things and what kind of person he is has always been borderline ridiculous, so I don't think it's your place to actually call someone out on creating bullshit theories when they make a lot more sense than the nonsense you used to spout off.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I’m glad Bounce7800 moved this discussion. I want to clarify a few things.

I don’t make shit up. We may see things differently but “making shit up” implies lying. I don’t lie and I resent the implication.

I don’t demonize Jon or victimize Richie. I checked my posts to see if I had been more critical than I thought and in 234 posts, there were 10. Less than 5% may be negative about Jon and 3 were in this discussion. 3 more were together in a similar discussion re spinning the press. One replied to your opinion that Jon had too much class to take Richie to court and I thought he’d sue Richie if he had a case. 2 said Jon HAD stated publicly that Richie would sing songs from Aftermath on tour. But I think the problem for you started with my 1st post where I suggested that Jon may be part of the reason Richie walked because IMO he was goading Richie in Calgary with, “we’re sorry he’s not here for you” and that there was a veiled threat in the “he won’t be performing anywhere”, implying IMO that Richie might be restricted from performing if it not with Bon Jovi.

I posted 8 positive comments about Jon, including 3 where I defended him against unfair comments. (BTW, when’s the last time you defended or complimented Richie?)

I made 3 posts criticizing Richie and 24 where I argued that people were judging prematurely or defended him against (mis)interpretation of his statements. For example, why is the fact that he wouldn’t want to play Runaway or his comments about Bounce considered a dig at THE BAND? How is the fact that he has more freedom or more control over his schedule as a solo artist a dig at Jon? And why weren’t such statements considered digs when he said the same things in other interviews over the years?

The rest of my posts were neutral or unrelated comments.

In one of the posts where I defended Jon I said that with the exception of “The Edge” comment, Jon hadn’t given any indication that he didn’t support Richie. Preaching to the choir, babe!

So David Bryan trashed the band when he said of In These Arms, “I wrote it”? Do you want me to dig up all the times JON said “I wrote…” about co-written songs?

Richie has said, “I’m the songwriter”, yes. But within context it’s clear that he’s not taking credit from Jon any more than Jon was taking credit from him the umpteen million times he said, “I wrote…” either. Richie is explaining why it’s not just the time on tour that made his work a continuous cycle, but that he does a lot more than just record and tour. People don’t take that into consideration when they ask, “Why don’t David and Teek feel this way?” Jon and Richie are the ones who write, demo, select, mix, master, produce, and promote. It’s also been a response to questions about him doing Jovi songs in his shows to clarify that they’re his songs, too. Not just that he “owns” them as much as Jon; but that they mean something to him just like his solo songs do, so why wouldn’t he want to sing them?

I haven’t seen it. But if you want to get into claims of being the mastermind and the SOLE f*ckin reason for the band’s success, I can have THAT conversation with you, starting with: "Does that mean that you think Jon is “classless, petty, and childish?” It seems to me that it’s Jon, if anyone, who gives ONE band member sole credit for everything the band has ever done (via “authorized” info and band mythology). And his obsessed fans credit him not only with that but for any of Richie’s success as well. They’d give Jon credit for world peace and saving all of Christendom if they could get away with it.

All that said, would you now like for me to do a similar analysis on comments you’ve posted about Richie? And not just since he left the tour either! In reading the archives, I’ve noticed that Richie’s one of your go-to defenses against things said about Jon and when people say something good about Richie, you just have to post something to negate it or to show where Jon has done something just as good or better.

The way I see it, Becky, "the problem" is your lack of perspective when it comes to Jon. It’s not that I cast Jon as villain and Richie as victim. It’s that somewhere inside yourself you know Jon’s not perfect and maybe you can admit to yourself there – in your own little corner, in your own little room – but it galls your ass to a fare-thee-well if someone says it “out loud” because you’re afraid that somewhere Richie might come off looking just a little bit better than Jon and you just can’t stand it.

In my opinion, whenever Jon called to Phil X as brother Phil, was a blow to Richie, I felt that.

We can discuss and analyze everything, but at the end of the day, we all know that this band needed a long break, and rescan everything you have done with a more critical eye.

Richie needed to do his solo stuff, and for that you need more time. A time in that Jon seemed interfere. I think the future can be promising with the return of Sambora to the band.

Stop it man, I've seen the videos and other comments from people who were there, it was a good show man.

Richie Sambora - Bridge Over Troubled Water - O2 Glasgow

Not surprising, coming from the same person who preferred the possibility that Richie was still struggling with substance abuse as an explanation for why he was away from the tour over an explanation that might make Jon look bad.

For the record, Richie hasn't said that he wrote the songs "on his own" either.

And before you "genuinely" go too far down that last road, you might want to check this out at about the 2:20 mark:




Just sayin'...

Jackie, I don't really care enough about this to go back and reread your posts or my posts (once was enough) so I'm not going to match you with a meta-analysis. My time is too valuable for that. The general attitude that comes across from your posts is Jon is at fault and Richie is just responding to whatever big bad Jon did to him. Maybe in your heart of hearts you don't mean to come across that way, but you do.

Also, you can't say you don't make things up because I saw a post from you not too long ago where you made up a quote that you think may be something like what Jon said and you put it in quotation marks. But it was all based on your THEORY of what Jon said because Richie said he was given an ultimatum. It wasn't that long ago so you can probably remember it. But, yes, you did make it up. None of us know what was said between Jon and Richie. And your whole notion that Jon is feeding the press digs at Richie is hardly based on cold, hard facts. It's just another theory.

And I stand by the way Richie has been saying, "I write the songs" lately comes across like he wants to be seen as the mastermind of the band. That's my interpretation, which like your theories is <i>not necessarily the way it is</i>, but how it comes across to me.

Richie's comments about Runaway and Bounce are insulting to Jon (Runaway) and the band (Bounce) because he's insulting their hard work. How would you take it Jon said someone else did "The Answer" and did it better than Richie did just because it has the same title? I know that's a bad example because I can't think of another song with that title, but Richie said someone else did "Runaway" and did it better than Jon because there's an old song with that title. That's pretty low. And if Jon had said it, you would be all over it. If it weren't for Runaway, Bon Jovi wouldn't have gotten a record deal and where would Richie be right now? Probably not in the position to bite the hand that feeds him.

No one has to tell me Jon's not perfect. But he's also not the villain he's been made out to be through the years on this board either. If you'd been around here for the last decade+, you would know that Jon has been made out to be everything but the devil himself. SOMEONE has to defend him. Jon has had very few champions on this website through the years. The fact is, the most I've ever seen positive comments directed toward Jon has come in the last year since Richie left. So if, like me, you actually LIKE and RESPECT Jon, you've learned to be on the defensive. I can't even begin to tell you how many fans of Jon have just given up and left because of the negativity. Yes, they do go to Backstage where it's actually okay to like Jon. So then they're called "Backstagers" around here in a demeaning tone. Try being a fan of Jon on Dry County. It's no easy existence. That's why I defend him, not because I think he's perfect.

And, for the record, before Richie started bailing on tours and running his mouth like he has been lately, I didn't have any problem with HIM. Sure, I don't like his singing voice. I never have and I never will. I don't apologize for that. The first time I heard him singing, I didn't know it was him and my reaction was, "What is this SHIT?" It was my honest reaction. I don't like my singing voice either. I don't like the minister of music at my church's singing voice. I'm entitled to have my own taste in singers.

But I never had problem with him as a human being. I just had a problem with his fans who always acted like he was God and Jon was someone to be scorned. And, girl, that goes back to the days of pen-pals before I ever even knew the internet existed. There's always been a divide between Richie Fans and Jon Fans and there always will be.

Gah, this post is too freaking long. I wouldn't even bother reading it if it were me. LOL