Official July 22, 2013 -> SPAC, Saratoga Springs, NY, USA thread

Haven't seen much in the way of reactions from people there yet, it may have gone well. Will see tonight as well.

When reading the PBP threads before the shows, these venues stuck out as being different but doing these gigs the way they are at a moment's notice is really strange. But I do think that it's the type of show we would get if Richie decided not to come back.

The main problem is that Jon has lost touch with his fans and his own work and it really is all about me (me as in Jon).

As much as I hate to bring Springsteen to this discussion, I am still going to, because it's all about the attitude. Last night, I was at the cinema watching the Springsteen & I documentary and this woman asks "how do you keep it up? 3+ hour concerts every night" and Bruce replied "It's all about the fans. Whenever I go onstage I see all the fans looking back at me and this is my inspiration. Yesterday's gig doesn't matter, tomorrow's show doesn't matter, it's all about this moment and giving these people who are here tonight the best you can be." They also showed a montage of Born to run with clips from each tour and it showed a band who after almost 40 years giving 100% on stage and loving every second of being on stage and playing their music.

With this latest travesty, it shows to me that the boss of the band (JBJ) is self-obsessed and so contradictory in his statements (why play all those covers which most of the audience probably won't know on show X and totally ignore your own best work because fans might not know it at show Y?). If JBJ really was all about the music he wouldn't care if the audience might not know a song (from for example These days), he'd perform the hell out of it and be proud an take the audience on a journey. Sadly, 90-95% of the Bon Jovi show in 2013 are about making money, playing it safe by playing the same damn songs for all the wrong reasons and the ego of the leader being fed by fans screaming at his every move. The shows where anything goes and are truly memorable like Cologne are in the absolute minority.

Don't get me wrong, I DON'T mind the band playing some cover songs at a show or being creative with their back catalogue (the summer 2003 half acoustic/half electric shows), but this show completely shows a lack of respect for the fans, their own albums and the talent of the musicians with all the wrong choices.

For years Jon has talked about wanting to be Springsteen, and he should take a look at the Springsteen & I documentary and see what it means to respect your own legacy and the impact it can have on fans. And you can still make a lot of money by doing that, Springsteen is a very wealthy man.

So when do we start saying "Jon bon jovi and his K street band" honestly it was bad enough when the announcer announced at Hyde park "tonight we have Jon bon jovi" meh what happened to just 5 guys.....

First of all - Springsteen and Jovi are in different galaxies. The 2-3 shows that stand out on every Bon Jovi tour are the equivalent of your every day boss gig. I am not even a fan of his music, but there is no comparison there.

Secondly - Springsteen plays 4h sets because he can't do differently. He plays to keep himself entertained, it's that simple. When he was young, he was suffering from depression-like symptoms, and playing live was the only time he'd clear his mind, think of nothing else but the show. No room for auto-pilot there. Jon Bon plays because of his ego. Because he wants to sell out the desert and stuff. If that's what motivates it, of course it won't even be a close call.

Third - Jovi play long sets, no question. Bruce plays marathon sets. And that makes a big difference. If you play an extra hour, you have enough time to please the die-hards AND the casuals and play covers and have guitar solos and Bobby do a song and what not. However, if Jovi played 4 hours we'd be bored to death. Because Jon has no ****in' clue how to structure a setlist and because his stage presence has become so minimalistic that it's only engaging on those 2-3 nights per tour.

Lastly, performance is always a function of three things:

1. capability
2. opportunity
3. motivation

And because Jon lost 1. and has very little of 2. we only get great shows on occasions such as Udine. Bruce is still as great as ever and no question, he's motivated. So, there you have it - comparing the two just doesn't make sense.

I've just read an article as well where Jon asks: "What have Bruce and Bono done?" in terms of charity work. What the hell? What a twat?! And I used to be a fan....*shaking head*

Say what you want about Bobby being unnecessary, he knows a bigger catalog of songs than Richie. The man is a machine with what he knows. They can pull out a rarity with Bobby there but they cannot with Phil.

I don't see a difference, it comes down to the individual to fix themselves. He walked out on the previous tour to get clean. You can dress it up anyway you wish, he still walked out.

Richie is nothing but a drunk and a disappointment. You can dress it up any way you wish bit its still true.

bad playing does not count. Calgary was a nightmare.

That has nothing to do with what I was saying but ok.

I prefer to the richie drunk that JBJ and Friends.

Many rock stars have had alcohol problems, some even still fighting. You can keep your perfect JBJ hero smells like roses, but remember that your daughter also had an overdose. He can do many actions against drugs, can attack Madonna and her children, but Jon is not better as father.

Nobody is perfect, Richie is simply amazing and I miss it a lot.