prayer opening the show - any video?

ok i understand what you are saying and of course i was being facetious -

but did you see the point of this post - did you see prayer when they opened with it...

did you see that at then end jbj wanted to keep it going and the band, if they wearnt attached to all this tech and were actually just playing and watching their frontman (conductor) would have let the jam continue but becausse they prob heard the "special" click which meant it was time to for the wrap up section they basically left jon hanging out there and crushed any spontaneity that would have come from that kind of energy...

thats my issue - there isnt any spontaneity and its supposed to be live, its not just the setlists its the whole thing -

imagine a musician from the 60s or 70s jumping into the 2010s...you dont think ANYTHING has been lost due to all this perfection thru technology?

Listen, im a techie, there is a place in music for all this, you want to autotune and that is a new art form fine, just not in my rock bands, i want it real raw authentic live rock and roll...

and im not even that old...none of you really have no issue with this? dont you think all this contributes to all the autopilotness of these shows - tico doesnt have to keep time, jon doesnt have to remember lyrics, richie is told when songs are gonna end in his ears, THEY DONT HAVE TO SING BECAUSE IT WOULD HURT THEIR VOICES SO THEY USE BACKING VOCAL TRACKS...you have to be joking -

i have so much more respect for the bobby addition now - at least a musician is being paid to add something and not a programmer, no matter how much he should be docked for every ITA solo...

you cant be accepting of all this total aloofness and then be upset with the number of autopilot performances...

and its a bigger issue than autopilot performances but we can start there as it is the single biggest contributor in my book...

right behind die hard fans that accept all this at face value and look the total other way...casuals fine, but die hard MUSICIANS?

what is world coming to? i remember when i had to walk to school...with kathleen...in the snow...uphill both ways....

i think its time for a wake up call jovination...

I'm not going to get into this again, because clearly the point isn't going through. All I will add is that they've most likely been using a click track in their inner ears since they started playing larger arenas in the mid-80's. In fact, I'd bet anything on it.

Agreed Brian. "Wake up, Jovination" is a little harsh. You're expecting everyone to be up in arms about something you're just figuring out now. If it's been like this since the mid 80's, it's really less a case about us not being critical and more about you not accepting what's been going on for literally decades.

Like it or don't like it, it is what it is. If you think it's worth leaving the band over, that's your prerogative. It's been like this far far far longer that it hasn't.

I hear what you are saying Marc but still - a Bon Jovi show is a "production" in many ways and songs need to be timed to video effects. Think about the fireworks at NMS during KTF. If the timing was off the effect would not have had the impact it had.

Certainly they don't schedule their shows down to the last minute - just in the last 2 weeks there were 3 hour shows and 2 hour shows with a few 2:45 thrown in their for good measure.

And regarding the statement below - my answer would be an emphatic NO - nothing has been lost. Especially in the 60's - everyone lip-synched - shit the Beatles only did 20 min to 1/2 hours shows. Everything was scheduled within an inch of it's life. And frankly it was my first love, Led Zeppelin that changed much of that by performing 4 hour shows with 1/2 hour drum solos (nobody has the attention span for 1/2 hour drum solos anymore - and probably not too many did then either)

I think that technology has improved a lot of things in the music business - and it has probably hurt others - but having a few loops programmed during a live show is not the end of live music as we know it.

I think that the business has changed drastically due to the lack of attention span mentioned above. A music show is now dancers and costumes and circus acts. It reminds me of my parents old movies of the Ziegfield Follies - Lady Gaga is a perfect example (and this has nothing to do with another bashing thread). The FOCUS is not the music or the quality but on the overall ACT. There are a few older bands Bon Jovi, and Bruce and Pearl Jam, and The Black Crowes and a few others who are still truly old school rock and roll bands who play their own instruments. Again - a few live loops don't change that. Hell even Bruce threw in fireworks for the closing of the old Giants Stadium as old school as he is.

there is no way this is true - when were inner-ear monitors even invented? ten years ago?

maybe tico had a click track - if so that is still pretty lame in my book - many many bands did not have drummers wearing headphones...

in fact my instructor used to show me how some songs were actually not keeping time right - it was important to him and i suspect the ability to keep time is important to most drummers...

again, just being a little dramatic

im less upset about the click tracks then any form of tapes, (not drum loops, thats fine for electonica sounds) im talking about faking singling live, etc - i do NOT think that was happening in the mid 80s....

am i wrong? were they doing that on the SWW and NJ tours?? ill put the click track down for now, not talking about that...

i totally understand about syncing with the production - i think i mentioned that...

and i never meant that they dont add or subtract songs making the length of shows different...

thats very interesting about the beatles...i kinda rem that...but janis, jimi, stones, zep, patti smith, eagles, allman brothers, etc. etc. these people were all accepting of using click tracks and backing vocals and any help at all to PLAY their INSTRUMENTS and SING...i really dont think so...but im open to being totally wrong....

i haveno problem with fireworks or the occasional electronica effects -

do bands these days not even play their own instruments? man maybe i really am out of touch... bruce doesnt use backing tapes does he?

and yes i understand bon jovis music is more produced and layered in the studio but when they did TLFR they HIRED MUSICIANS and PAID THEM to PLAY those parts, they didnt PRESS PLAY and it was awesome...

unless that was faked as well, but i was there and i dont think so...

And about those 1/2 hour drum solos - aren't there some mood-altering substances that make those infinitely more fascinating than they might otherwise be?

The only reason Jovi would use a click-track for a song is if there are set-tempo samples (eg. the start of the second chorus of 'Everyday') and this includes backing vocals. They use them for IML, HAND and many others I'd imagine as well. They are good enough as musicians to play a song in a ball-park tempo and not stray from it for tracks that don't have samples though.

It's nothing new, I don't particularly like it either but that's the way it is. The demands of their touring schedule mean that if it helps to save their voices, I suppose it's a necessary evil.

There sure are Terri - but honestly - when you had a drummer like John Bonham he kept you interested (in my opinion anyway). There was also Iron Butterfly and the super long drum solo in In a Gadda Da Vita (In the Garden of Eden) which never seemed to be played the same way - ever. Bonham was super consistent - most of the others weren't.