The Bon Jovi set list debate

Aloha !

No it doesn't.

1. No song from the first album. They've played Runaway to dead by now.
2. Two songs from the second album. The last time they included a song from that album in their sets was 1993. And yes I know about 2001 but that was a one off.
3. 4 songs from Slippery When Wet, but one of them is a rare one.
4. 3 songs from New Jersey including a rare one.
5. 2 songs from Keep The Faith, including a rare one.
6. 2 songs from Blaze Of Glory
7. 1 song from Stranger In This Town
8. 2 songs from These Days
9. 1 song from Crush. The album wasn't that strong, and the only reason it was such a success was because of It's My Life. Not because of I Got The Girl, Capt. Crash and well, you get my point.
10. 1 song from Bounce. All the hits bombed, but it can't be ignored so play an album cut anyway.
11. 1 song from Have A Nice Day. Yes, Who Says You Can't Go Home was a big hit in the USA, but the rest of the world didn't give a **** about that song.
12. 4 songs from the new album, which is enough really.

How is this ignoring their back catalogue? It's surprising, has most of the hits in it and enough gems to keep die hards happy every night.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that they stick to this set for this tour. Next tour it goes out and another These Days song returns. In that way you'll never be bored with any of the songs (besides the obvious hits) as none of them will be overplayed. Why did many people enjoy Born To Be My Baby so much in 2000? Because it had not been played since 1993. Why did many people enjoy Raise Your Hands so much in 2001? Because it had not been played since 1988.

Then how can a set from the KTF tour be worse if it contains nothing but killers? Mixing up a set doesn't make a setlist better. If you mix it up but nothing special returns you might as well not mix it up.

There are more surprises this tour than there were on the These Days tour. They've also mixed it up more on this tour than during the These Days tour. It's just that the These Days Tour had a fantastic basic setlist that it didn't really need that many variations in order to keep fans excited at that time.

Who would've thought they'd play Undivided, TLFR songs, I Get A Rush, Good Lovin' Have A Little Faith, I Wish Everyday Could Be Like Christmas on the HAND tour? You're making it look like this tour is full of surprises, but it isn't. So far there have been just as many surprises on this tour as there were on the HAND tour. It's only the variaton that is bigger, but when it comes to surprises, nah.

Again, you're making it look like the band surprised the die hards every night in Europe. Dry County was played only a handful of times, Garageland only once, I Believe wasn't played on the HAND tour, These Days only a few times...It's not like the setlists in Europe are filled with surprises, you're exaggerating there.

So yes, give me the setlist I posted 4 times in a row and mix it up like they did on the KTF tour (1 or 2 songs change per night) and I'm happy. I don't understand how anyone could prefer 4 different sets with mediocre songs in it over 4 standard sets with nothing but killers.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Because, once again, your defining Killer by tracks you think are killer.
I think Two Story Town would be a killer track for them to play, but I'm sure there are people who'd disagree with me.

Aloha !

Two Story Town went over like a balloon during the Crush Tour, hence the reason why it was dropped shortly after the tour started. I'm all for mixing up as long as it's for the better flow and show. Like removing This Ain't A Love Song and replacing it with Bed Of Roses. Both songs were big 90's ballads and both songs are rarely played. Or removing Blood On Blood and replace it with I'd Die For You. Both songs are album cuts from the eighties and both are fan favourites.

If you think Two Story Town should be there, another album cut should be out. You tell me which album cut it should be from my set. I enjoy Mystery Train, I'm one of the few really, but didn't put it in my set, because not that many people enjoy it. I didn't make a setlist of songs I think are killers, I made a setlist of songs that 90% of all die hards think are killers.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I think there are two distinct issues here:

1) The core of the set list should span their career more than it does now, since they concentrate on the SWW and current album, neglecting Fahrenheit, These Days (and Bounce for most shows).

In this point i give you credit, and agree with you. yes, the set list should be more balanced.
They should play at least one song from each album every show, mixing the mandatory hits with album tracks that should be replaced on every tour.

2) Apart from the core set, they should vary every night. Why? Because many hard core fans do many shows and would like to listen to different songs; because it makes the set list more unpredictable for the fans who follow their set lists before attending to the shows; ultimately because it shows the band is not on auto-pilot, and that the set list is a work in progress, that is never actually done, before the end of the show.

I insist in this point because I think they have too much good material to play the same 25 songs night after night.

When you say I'm talking like if everything is great, I'm just talking on this particular point, that has been getting better. Nowadays they have 50 songs from which they select 20-25 for a show. During the KTF, they would play 18-20 out of 25 possible songs. It's true that now they have more albums, but, take the Crush tour for example, in stead of KTF tour. In 2000 they would play 22 out of 30 possible songs, again I'm only referring to point 2 - variation, there was close to zero variation. You could predict 18 songs out of the 22 and even their order.
Today, you still predict 12 songs for sure, but the fact is they've been mixing up. They did it during the HAND tour. And now they are doing it even more.

I don't want to sound like everything is great, set lists are very dynamic and that I'm 100% pleased with what I'm getting. Definitely not. I want more stuff from These Days, and stuff like Get ready, 99 in the Shade, Next 100 years, I Believe, etc... I want stuff from all the albums in one show. But aside from my requests, which vary depending on what they are playing - since I won't request I'd Die for you if they are doing it every night - I want to be surprised at least once every night, and say "Hey now there's something I didn't see coming, and it sounds great!"

These are only 2 points out of the 1000... that a live performance consists of. There's of course the delivery of the song, the improvisation, the band's mood - and boy I know Jon can kill a perfect set list if he's not in the right mood, etc, etc, etc.

Here we are only talking set list wise, and from my perspective these are two essential aspects of a set list: core set list which span all their career and variation, so the element of surprise is present on every show.

On the subject of I Believe......

On the Crush Tour DVD (Zurich, Switzerland) Richie talks about how Jon makes a set half-hour before they go on stage. When he mentions the songs he (Jon) chooses to open shows, he says:

"...sometimes, we open up with Livin' On A Prayer, sometimes we open up with I Believe..."

Am I right in saying that they've only used (or at least, opened with) I Believe during the KTF shows?

Richie was referring to the Crush tour in 2000 when they opened with I Believe on a couple of nights - Bremen and Berlin I think - All other nights in Europe that year they kicked off with Livin on a Prayer.

I Believe was the show opener for 99% of the shows during the KTF tour. In other tours the song opened 2 shows in 2000 and 2 shows in 2003 - both 2003 shows were in Tokyo.

It was also played in some shows (in the middle of the set) in 1995, 96 and 2003.

Is there any footage of these?

It was played second at the 2 shows in 2003, after Bounce

I'd love to hear it played, it'd be awesome if they put it back into rotation

Comparing Iron Maiden to Bon Jovi isn't really appropriate. Maiden tends to play the same setlist throughout their tour. If you go to this tour, you are lucky because you get to hear those legendary songs. If you went last tour like I did, you weren't so lucky because you got to hear the entire freaking AMOLAD album which sucked balls.

But anyway, I think Bon Jovi could do better when they do the following (assuming a 24 song setlist, which seems to be their average number):

1. Play the hits that the average listeners must hear. Let's see, how many are there: Prayer, Bad Name, Wanted DOA, Bad Medicine, It's My Life, Who Says You Can't Go Home. That's 6.

2. Play 5 songs from the new album. Probably Make A Memory (because it's the first single, even though it sucked ass), Lost Highway (the opener) and 3 more (I prefer I Love This Town, We Got It Going On and Any Other Day but it can be any 3 from the new album). Total so far, 11.

3. Play these 2 songs BACK TO BACK because if not, it's an assault to all things holy, good and pure: Blood On Blood and In These Arms. That brings us to 13.

4. We still got 11 slots that Bon Jovi can mess with every show!

If it were up to me, here's how I'll fill up the 11 slots. No cover songs, and no solo songs. Each album that hasn't been represented above will be represented by at least 1 song. There are 6 albums not represented yet, and I'll take Runaway, In And Out Of Love, Someday I'll Be Saturday Night, These Days, Undivided and Starting All Over Again. Then I'll fill the remaining 5 slots with Keep The Faith, Have A Nice Day, I'll Be There For You, This Ain't A Love Song and 99 In The Shade.

Yeah. But Jon does the set a half-hour before the show.