Tutorial: How to write a proper setlist.

1. Lost highway
2. Raise your Hands
3. Runaway
4. Born to be my baby
5. Just Older
6. One wild night
7. Bounce
8. Damned
9. Make a Memory
10. Always
11. In and out of love
12. We got it goin on
13. I want you (acc)
14. This aint a love song (acc)
15. Love for sale (acc)
16. Sleep (with Mercy and Rockin all over the world)
17. Hey God
18. Have a nice day
19. Bad Medicine (Shout)
20. Keep the Faith - Sympathy for the devil

21. Wanted
22. Any other Day
23. Drift Away
24. Living on a prayer

Its not as easy as it first seems sticking to the rules is it!? I think i have though? What do you think Seb?

Aloha !

None, that's a solid set and it should work. Putting Misunderstood at slot number 7 creates a good bridge from rock songs to ballads.

Which means that we go back to the current system. If they're not going to be there every night, it means that we go back to the system of Jon playing what he wants to, as opposed to playing what a crowd wants them to play. This would mean that he wouldn't consider the songs at all and most likely would pick another Story Of My Life or Complicated over them.

If this goes up for New Jersey, then it should also count for Slippery and Keep The Faith, meaning that Faith should not be played at every show, and Prayer shouldn't either. You're mixing up your personal opinions regarding a certain song with how important a certain song was in the charts, for their career, etcetera.

What was a big hit 20 years ago is a hit that's still being played on the radio today, which is why a casual fan nowadays will know it as well. Someone who became a fan because of Everyday will start checking out other Bon Jovi songs, and will first start to download the big hits and singles. Even the ones from 20 years ago.


You're wrong there. Just listen to the audience reaction whenever Bad Medicine starts. Jon's got the attention of the audience right when he asks for a doctor. That's not happening with Born To Be My Baby or LYHOM. They're both the bigger hits, but not the big hits.

Not true. If you'd replace It's My Life with One Wild Night but would play an extra big hit from any eighties or nineties album the balance is still there. The thing is though, Crush rode on the success of It's My Life, while These Days rode on the succes of the 5 singles it spawned. It just is what it is. More people will know the singles from These Days than the singles from Crush. More people will know a song like Something To Believe In than a song like Two Story Town. The other albums were bigger, so they should be represented in a more important way. It just is what it is.

Which in the current setlists would mean that with this theory you'd get:
1. Runaway
2. The Radio Saved My Life Tonight
3. Hallelujah

There's no chance Jon is going to pick a song from Fahrenheit if he's able to play The Radio Saved... instead. So this isn't working, because it's what Jon's doing nowadays.

Which means that you see TLFR as an album that was just as important as Crush, which is what Jon is doing nowadays as well. He played 5 songs from Have A Nice Day on some shows of the LH tour, which, again, means that the balance is lost. 4 songs from Slippery and 5 from HAND is just as bad as 1 song from TLFR and 1 from Crush. This category makes no sense either.

Which makes a ballad like Never Say Goodbye just as important as Always. That doesn't make sense either.

Which would mean that Jon would be able to pick Blood On Blood all the time, and again, there goes your theory. It'd means no songs from These Days as well and I fail to understand what Livin' In Sin is doing there.

So it's either an epic song like Dry County or a big ballad like This Ain't A Love Song? This category makes no sense as well. You just made a category filled with songs of which you think sound roughly the same, but are in fact very different songs.

So it's either one of their bigger hits from the 00's or an album cut from Crush?

Walrus, if Jon would handle your theory it'd mean we'd get the setlists we get nowadays. And your sample setlist contains just 3 album cuts (apart from the new songs) of which 2 are from their post 2000 albums. How does this make a good set? It's not showcasing their diverse catalogue at all.

Yes you could. Many setlists from the European Tour 1995 didn't work as well as you try to make it look like they did. The ending of that epic show at Wembley 1995 dragged and was only saved by the brilliant atmosphere and playing of the band. It was the band who played so brilliant that saved the set. When the band started playing the same sort of setlists in 2000 it wasn't the setlist that was really that bad, it was the band that was incapable of ripping through the songs the same way they did in 1995.


Erm, they played Bad Medicine as song number 2 or 3 back in 1996...

Which shows, because Bad Medicine halfway through the set did work. They did it on the Have A Nice Day tour and did it on the Lost Highway tour and it worked like a charm. It was fresh to see it there and not having it ending the set, and it did get the show going.


Eh? The theory I posted in my first post showed that it is possible to please every single person in the audience. And as long as people pay to see Bon Jovi play they should try to please as many people as possible. In the end, that's their job. They were good at it back in 1993 and 1995, but started to lose the plot a bit once Jon's favourite songs from an album weren't the favourite songs from the fans. If Jon wants to play the songs he likes he should do it in his free time. On tour you play the songs your audience wants to hear. It's that simple.

Your acoustic set is too boring for the average fan. But apart from that, your set is good. It's got a proper flow. The same goes for Wrath_Mania. Both good sets.

And once again, I'm not trying to bash anyone here. Setlists are a hobby of mine, and I just enjoy talking about it.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I am not trying to bash anyone either but I think I would find these 4 songs in a row boring so I would be interested in how a casual fan would react to these 4 in a row.


Other than that, I think your song choices Wrath Mania are great while staying within the rules that Seb has thought out.

I disagree. Exactly how did the ending of Wembley '95 drag? It was pretty much a perfect set that they played. Throughout the summer 1995 they played a greatest hits set that flowed really well, IMO the basic set was constructed perhaps better than any set by any band that I know...

No, it seemed that Jon had lost the imagination to change the sets in a good way. In 2000 they had more songs to choose from than ever before, and they could have mixed up the set a lot, making every show clearly different and interesting. But instead they went back to the old '95 set starting almost every show in Europe with Prayer and Bad Name, they brought back Born To Be My Baby for every single goddamn show, they always did the tired and familiar Hands->Sleep->Bad Medicine medley, they didn't play anything from These Days, they didn't play any "rarities" and so on. The setlists in 2000 were really boring.

Is song number 2 in the middle of the set? Did Bon Jovi concerts in 1996 consist of altogether 4 songs?

Nothing that this band has done post-2000 has worked.

First of all making setlists is not exact science. It seems like you're trying to solve the theory of everything or something. Your rigid rules are unnecessary. Secondly their job is not to please everyone, their job is playing music. Basically they can play whatever the hell they want, and IMO they used to be able to create quite good setlists that way - in the end all this obviously comes down to personal opinion, maybe someone else thinks that setlists in 1995 were terrible and in 2000 and after that they were great.

I maintain that all setlists in this thread are bad. Because firstly, the main sets are all too long. A Bon Jovi concert can't have 19-20 songs in the main set. Sets like that are like bad double albums; they're too big and sprawling and there's no flow. A good Bon Jovi concert has 13-15 songs in the main set, the absolute maximum is 17 songs. After about 14 songs there are 4 to 10 encores. And all of you have songs in strange places. Everyone should know that a concert can't end with Dry County or Always. Keep The Faith can't be the first encore and Wanted Dead Or Alive is a bad closing song too. The main set can't end with It's My Life, Livin' On A Prayer can't be played in the middle of a show, Sleep When I'm Dead can't be in the middle of a set either, These Days can't be the second last song of the main set, and so on...

Here's my simple advice on how to build a Bon Jovi set: you open with a few big rock songs, and 3-4 last songs of the main set are rock songs. As an encore there can be pretty much anything but the songs need to be in a rational order. There are only two power ballads that can end a show: I'll Be There For You and This Ain't A Love Song. No other ballad works. A concert can have 0 to 3 power ballads; usually so that there's one ballad in the main set and 1 or two in the encores. Wanted Dead Or Alive works best as the opening song of an encore set when Richie comes alone to the stage to perform an acoustic guitar solo for a few minutes, then the other members come on stage and they do Wanted. Bad Medicine works either early in the show as the 2nd or 3rd song (NOT as the opener though) or then ending the main set. Things like these should be obvious to all but still I always see very weird fantasy setlists on this site. Here's a few fantasy setlists of mine from a fictional tour of 2000:

Sex Sells
Bad Medicine
Wild In The Streets
It's My Life
Say It Isn't So
Blood On Blood
These Days
Made In America (obviously Richie singing)
These Arms Are Open All Night
Rich Man Living In A Poor Man's House
Runaway
Let It Rock/We Will Rock You
I'll Sleep When I'm Dead/Satisfaction
Keep The Faith
------------------------------------------
Bed Of Roses
Garageland
Just Older
Livin' On A Prayer
-------------------------------------------
Wanted Dead Or Alive
Something To Believe In
Get Back
Someday I'll Be Saturday Night

another show:

Hey Hey, My My
It's My Life
Bad Medicine
Keep The Faith
Blood On Blood
Rich Man Living In A Poor Man's House
Say It Isn't So
Bed Of Roses
Something For The Pain
Life's Too Short For Days Like These
I Could Make A Living Out Of Loving You
Dry County
Let It Rock
I'll Sleep When I'm Dead/It's Only Rock'n'Roll
One Wild Night
---------------------------------------------
(It's Hard) Letting You Go
I'd Die For You
Wild Is The Wind
Livin' On A Prayer
--------------------------------------------
Wanted Dead Or Alive
Just Older
These Days

third show

Lay Your Hands On Me
One Wild Night
Bad Medicine
Keep The Faith
Say It Isn't So
Just Older
Living In Sin
These Days
Undiscovered Soul
Life's Too Short For Days Like These
Ain't No Cure For Love
Damned/If Loving You Is Wrong
Someday I'll Be Saturday Night
I'll Sleep When I'm Dead/Glory Days
Runaway
---------------------------------------
Always
I Believe
Garageland
Livin' On A Prayer
---------------------------------------
My Guitar Lies Bleeding In My Arms
Lie To Me
99 In The Shade
Sex Sells

You guys are freaks...

And you should never, NEVER end with a ballad. Only wusses go out like that.


Ice

No. It was like 24/28 songs setlist with Lay Your Hands On Me and Bad Medicine on the first 2/3 songs.

Aloha !

5 out of the 9 songs were ballads and 2 of the 9 songs were songs about nobody had heard by then. All the songs were done perfectly, but the ending dragged.

I agree with you. However, íf the band would have performed the 2000 setlist with the same energy as the 1995 sets the differences would not have been that obvious as you're saying they are nowadays. The Hands->Sleep->Bad Medicine medley might be tiring to you, but if it worked on the 1995 tour it should work on the 2000 tour as well. You're merely talking about the lack of changes instead of the set being good.

I'm sorry, I thought you meant that Bad Medicine should always be near the end of the set.

That's just not true, and, no offense, with a statement like that I really wonder how many shows since 2000 you actually visited? Bad Medicine in the middle of the main set worked, it just did, and it was fresh to see the song end up there.

When looking at the sets people have posted over the past 8 years I've been on Jovitalk you'd start to think it is for some people. Just because it's easier for you and me doesn't mean that everyone else is able to understand it as well.

Their job is to entertain us, because we pay them to be entertained, and therefore their job should be to try to entertain as many people in the best way possible. Their job is not to play music, that's their hobby.

Not true. It worked like a charm on the Lost Highway and Have A Nice Day tours. Doing 4 to 10 encores is pointless. There's just no use for 3 break ups in between those 10 encores. It's pointless. Everytime the band would be back at full gear they'd stop again just to break it up, get back off stage, get back on stage and play another 3 songs? That's just pointless.

Agreed.

Yes it can and I fail to understand why. It's the perfect way of saying "there's more to come".

It's not. Worked incredibly well on the Lost Highway and Have A Nice Day tours. It's the ultimate closing song.

I partially agree with you on this. On one hand I think it's their big and should either open or close the main set, or should be part of the encore. However, it worked very well on the One Wild Night and Bounce Tour. It really took the show into second gear.

Yes it can. It worked on the Lost Highway Tour, it created this big party vibe very early in the set, something Bon Jovi usually needs 14 songs for. Honestly, if you disagree with this I wonder if you actually saw any show on the Lost Highway tour, or listened to any entire bootleg from that tour?

Never Say Goodbye has always worked whenever they closed a show. As did Thank You For Loving Me on the Crush Tour.

2 powerballads in 1 encore makes the encore very slow.

Though I agree that is pretty much how Wanted Dead Or Alive should be played every night, I disagree with the fact that the other way doesn't work. When it was played as the last song of the night during the Lost Highway tour it just worked. It just did, and I'm pretty sure everyone that went will agree with me.

Go listen to any 2006/2008 show. They will all prove you that this just isn't true. When the band put Bad Medicine as the 13th song of the main set that consisted of 19 songs, it worked. Onwards from there the rest of the main set was very high energy. It made the song sound fresh again because it didn't get that same "we do it just for the sake of doing it" feeling.

Your fictional setlists are all pretty rubbish too. Made In America would never work on a Bon Jovi show and many parts of the setlist are very mid-tempo. Hey Hey, My My is a song in a minor key which works just as bad as opening as Runaway. It just sounds sad, and the band will never open a show with a song that's in a minor key. Especially not with a song like Hey Hey, My My, which sounds very melodramatic and melanchotic.

And ending a fictional setlist with a song you've never heard is pretty odd as well.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

No, wussies make up setlists for Bon Jovi. That end with a ballad.

Never end with a ballad. It's the total let-down, the anti-climax,the wuss-way.

Ice

I disagree. If Bon Jovi were to end with Never Say Goodbye or Thank You For Loving Me(obviously after a high tempo encore previously) it would wind the show down well and get the whole audience in a special atmosphere. Different songs set different moods and ballads do work ending a show.

[QUOTE=Supersonic;920797]Aloha !


Well yeah, you'd have to assume that Jon would be willing to play ball and actually go for a 7800 song at least every few shows, but then in your setlist you have to accept that Jon would actually play a 7800 song every night. In reality, neither of those things are going to happen.

Prayer is their signature song, there's no way it shouldn't be played. I still think the set would suffer less from dropping Bad Medicine rather than any of Prayer, Wanted, Bad Name, Faith or IML (which I'll henceforth refer to as the "staple songs"). If you think it's just as important as those five, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree.

To be honest, I'm surprised you haven't said anything about me including HAND as a song that needs to be played every night.

Personally I've never heard Bad Medicine on the radio, whereas I've heard the five staple songs loads. I do agree that if I was going to add another song to the staple song list, it should be Bad Medicine.


I don't disagree with any of that. But It's My Life is more than just one of the bands biggest hits, it is literally their signature song for the 00s generation. I don't even like it live, but I think a lot of casuals would go away unhappy if it was dropped from the setlist.

No, cos Crush is already definitely represented in the set by IML, and has a 50% chance of being represented with Captain Crash. I don't think the "balance" as you put it is that in one isolated setlist Crush has the same amount of songs played as TLFR, I think it is that over the course of an entire tour, Crush songs will be played with a lot more frequency than TLFR songs.

I'd say at this point, the most important albums to be represented in the setlist are, in order:

1. New album, in this case Lost Highway
2. Slippery
3. New Jersey / Keep The Faith
4. These Days / Crush
5. HAND
6. Everything else



No, because you don't have to pick them all an equal amount. Over the course of the tour, Always and I'll Be There For You would probably each be played at about 35ish% of the shows each, Bed Of Roses at 20%, and Never Say Goodbye at 10%. Having them in the same slot doesn't mean they are all equally important, just that they fulfill the same role in the set.


Again, you have to assume Jon would be willing to shake it up. I couldn't figure out where to put Livin' In Sin ... it didn't seem to fit among the big ballads, so I stuck it here.

They don't have to sound exactly the same, or have the same theme, they just have to fulfill the same role in the set ... in this case, a semi rare, slower paced song ... I reckon it'd be best just before you get into the run of songs at the end of the main set, for example Dry County at Twickenham 1. It could also work in the encore. I was thinking about this today, and you could probably add Something To Believe In to this list

Granted, that one's a bit iffy because Who Says is much more well known than Crash, but they do have essentially the same role in the set: fun pop rock song with audience participation.

Howw many album cuts do you want in a show? To be honest, I'd be just as happy hearing Hey God as I would Something To Believe In, it doesn't matter that one is an album cut and one is a single, the fact of the matter is that they're both rare songs. I also think that having one album cut from each album from SWW to TD for the sake of it, and at the expense of being able to play all 3 of the big SWW hits, is shooting the setlist in the foot a little bit. I reckon one 80s/90s album cut a night (not including Blood In Blood, as its in a different slot) is plenty.

My God that took a long time!