Who cares what they play, unless you are there

The fact is, playing rarer tracks shouldn't be seen as a "treat" for the fans - it should be a part of changing the set-list about. They can't please everyone? Well, they could please a lot more if they played just a few different songs each gig as opposed to keeping the set about 99% fixed. The die-hards have as much right to get as much out of a concert as everyone-else, but don't ask much in seeing the odd one or two tracks from KTF or These Days for example, that they don't play that often.

Cash-wise, I do expect to get something for my money other than a re-run of previous predictable concerts. I'm not saying I'm not gonna have a great time in Hyde Park if they play the same set, but I would probably be thinking it could have been better - and should have been!

As for the whole banners thing to tell Jon what we want to hear - personally, people with banners piss me off! People behind you have a right to see the gig too! I know that if you were in front of me with a huge banner at a concert, it wouldn't be up for very long cos I'd tear the damn thing down! Banners are just selfish and should be banned altogether IMO!!

With 24 songs in a set, you could easily please most, if not all, of the crowd, so you're point about having to play 50, 000 songs is ridiculous. We aren't asking for much for one or two rarities.

[quote="Mike McRock"]

Set lists are important with Bon Jovi. Bands like Deep Purple will largely do the same set everynight, but because there is so much improvisation, the shows are very very different. I saw 3 shows last year in close sucession (plus another two earlyer on) and althoguh the set was the same, the show was by no means the same! Bon Jovi don't improvise as much, so Bad Name, will sound the same on just about every show. The way that they change things is through the sets, it's how they've always done it in the past. If they don't change the sets around enough, and don't bring in the raraties, then they lost the thing that makes one show different from the other..... The three things that are most clear from the MK show, is when Jon made Richie repete the solo, making it longer, unlike the other performances on that tour; Keep The Faith, into screams/Sympathy, because they do improvise a lot in this sec; and Sleep When I'm dead, because he did a scream in a place he never does one......

quote]
you're completly right on this point...since 2000 i've been to three concerts..one in Essen ,one in leipzig and one In paris...despite the fact that it was indoor ,the bercy show was much better than the others...the difference was that in paris the concert was hotter..much more energy...but at each concert I regretted that the improvisation was missing..nearly the same solos..same quotes by Jon...are you with me out there..etc etc..everybody know..Lol..other groups like deep purple you are right..even if they have the same set list each night...are better to improvise during a show...

In which case the band doing the rareties for the fans wouldn't effect you at all. Take them or leave them, they're not going to stop you enjoying the concert, as you've pointed out in the above statement.

Which is why Bon Jovi should start to play smaller venues. It's the fans that got them where they are, the fact that their looking after the imparcial majority shows that the band aren't interested in their fans, and don't give them what they want. Bon Jovi should be more bothered about turning on the people who really do love them, and really do love the music, as opposed to just playing teh songs that will get the non Jovi loving audiance jumping. Watch concerts from other bands and you see that they will leave out a lot of the classics, because the audiances they are playing to are fans, if there are 49000 people who aren't really fans of Bon Jovi, doesn't that tell you something about the tours at the moment?

Again, so you won't mind Bon Jovi playing something that will make me, and a lot of the other fans a bit more excited. If you like everything, then the rarities won't bother you!

Goodie for you, I'm proportionally to how much money I actually have I'm paying a ludicrous amount of money for this tour! The fact is, it's £45 a show, which is double most other bands, and it isn't double the quality! I'm asking for ballance in the set list. I've never said I expect them to drop Crush, and Bounce, I'm not interested, but I expect these songs. However, I do want to have something for the old fans, who do want to hear from NJ, 7800 Bon Jovi e.t.c. The shows at the moment, or the sets arn't representetive of Bon Jovi's fans!

I will do, but unless you're front row they can't see them. I would get there for that, but the problem is BJ tour during exams. I know for a fact, that the day of Manchester, I have a 3 hour exam, which means I won't be getting to the ground before 3. Last tour, because there was little opotunity to get to shows, I didn't bother joining the fan club to get into the pit (plus in Stoke we got in without), so MK we were front of the non fanclub area, which again, we woulnd't have got our banner seen. But still, if they used boards like this, they could see that there are fans out there who want to hear some rarer songs, and could include a few for them. Again, I'm not asking for 50000 songs, just 5 say from the earlyer years, which is less than a quater, but accounts for probably a half of Jovi's carear, so I don't think this is unreasonable....

I get your point, but you still have to admit, there is an unbalance, and the band aren't giving the majority of the fans as much as they could

Yes. If they don't play a rare song I will be satisfied. If they do - well, depends on the song, but most likely I will enjoy that. And it adds to my experience - as do a lot of other things.

I don't think they should play smaller venues in order to please a handful of fans. Yes - I think indoor concerts and smaller venues are much more intimate, and I'd prefer those over stadium shows to some degree. But the band are doing those too - SBE for example, was a club gig. In 2000 they played two arena shows in Finland for 10 000 people - amazing!

What I don't appreciate here is your way of using "should". You're making it sound like the band owes you personally something. I don't see it that way at all - and that's what I meant by the 50 000 songs metaphor. If everybody thought the way you do, there would not be one happy face in the crowd.

First of all, I'm not really interested in watching concerts from other bands, or comparing Bon Jovi to other bands. Secondly, what I said was that there are ab. 1000 die-hard fans. It doesn't mean the rest of the audience aren't fans, and certainly not non-Jovi-lovers. And because I don't think the 49 000 people aren't fans or don't like Bon Jovi, there's no point in commenting your point about something being wrong with the tours at the moment. Obviously, I don't share your view.

I never said that the rarities bother me - don't twist my words. And I never said that I like everything, either.


Don't think I'm a rich brat who has no problem spending thousands of euros on this tour - every cent that I use for the tour is away from something else. I'm having hard time saving the money, but I will do that. The money doesn't come to my outstretched hands, I'm working for it.


Have you actually taken a look at the statistics of the tour? If not, take a peek at http://www.aras.dds.nl/tmp/tourstats.html. Sara has done an amazing job. Let me rephrase the statics for you.

There has been a total of SIX songs played in each concert. Two of those are from Bounce, two are from NJ and two from SWW. I think that shows you something about the balance. It's Bounce tour, after all. They've played 13 songs from the first four albums, and 14 from the last two. I think that's good balance, once again, considering that it is a Bounce tour. Three songs played from TD, and besides the title track (which should get played more), they are rarities. Fives songs played from KTF - I think that's great. The past few tours we've only basically seen the title track getting played. I believe, I believe is a rarity. I think Raise your hands, Love for sale, Living in sin and Wild is the wind are rarities at this stage of their careers. And Raise... has been played a lot. Now, to be truthful, there are no songs from Fahrenheit. But that's representative of their career, too. What is making the balance go off a bit, imo, are the 12 cover songs that are played.

I think that the statistics show that they do play a balanced set with songs from their past as well as songs from the present. Which raises the point - when you're talking about "something for the old fans, who do want to hear from NJ, 7800 Bon Jovi e.t.c", are you in fact referring to BJ and Fahrenheit songs only?

But they do. Bswjbj and bj.com are official sites, and those message boards are official. If you want to get yourself heard, you should maybe go and voice your opinions there? DC is great and I'm sure they know what's going on here, too, but it is after all unofficial.

And the band have heard what's going on in the boards - Jon even said so in the fan club sound check, "don't you think we know what's going on in the boards" and played These Days.

Maybe you'd wanna set up a poll asking about the rarities, just so that you could get yourself heard. If you get a lot of people behind you, the band are more likely to hear you.

Once again, take a look at the statistics. I even did the maths for you. Let's say there are 20 songs in a concert, to make it even out. (the rest can be counted as covers, or the occasional rarity). 20 years and 20 songs equal one song per year (balance, remember).

The first two albums should, according to my maths, get two songs played (at the moment there's only one). The second two get 6 years, six songs. KTF, Crossroads and TD get 8 altogether. Crush and Bounce get four. There we see that the imbalance isn't infact on the first two albums, but the 3 middle albums. KTF, Crossroads and TD haven't gotten the emphasis they should get, if the songs played would be spread evenly. But we all knew that anyways.

I don't know if that makes any sense, or in fact if that's just plain pointless, I just thought I'd point out that the imbalance in the set list isn't in the first years of their career, but on the 90s.

I don't see this early-80s-imbalance, to be honest. Yes - the classics and the hits get played, but they have played the less known songs, too...

hey lets not turn this into a b'shit country bashing session.

Im in Australia... Western Australia to be exact.. lets just say the last time the boys were here was 95 and that got cancelled so lets make that oh about 93 I think. Ive never seen them live in concert. Seen Jon solo once and I live off that LOL. Been a fan forever and a day as most people have. I would LOVE to see them in concert. It would be unreal.

But I also think the people who are wanting setlist change have a point. Their is nothing worse than a band who just follows the same game plan night after night. Says the same jokes plays the same songs. It gets stale and you feel like something fresh to be played. Im sure many who are parting with their money would like to see a few different songs thrown in a few changes to the same set. Nothing wrong with that.


Kat

[/quote]

I'm just going of what you say.



I don't think Bon Jovi ow somehting personally to me, if you read what I say, I'm using the word 'me' to represent the fans who think like me, and there are a lot of them. I don't expect the band to play things like King Of THe Mountain, or Into the Fire, which I like, but I know a lot of people don't. However, somethign like Breakout, or Shot Through The Heart, or Homebound Train, or Fear are songs I know a lot of the older fans, or the rock fans would love to hear. The fact is, Bon Jovi neglect this group. My attitude is that the Band ow something to the people who put them there, and they do. I don't want that personally, but I think they should apreciate there are lots of fans who think like me, so just three or four songs to represent us in the set is not unreasonable.

As for them playing the non classics, rubish. Blood on Blood is one of their classics.... Really, the only song they do that isn't on Crossroads is Raise your hands. The raraties never feacture in the main set, but as extras, which means not everybody hears the,....

I'm going out now, I'll continue latter

I think Kat has pretty much hit the nail on the head and we should drop this whole debate cos its just gonna turn nasty. Everyone's made their points and there's nothing much more to discuss - just the same old stuff to argue about.

I agree. Let's agree to disagree and then get on. And let's hope for more variety in the set lists - Bon Jovi have a reputation built on being a live band, and let's hope they remember that...