Why Die-Hards Suck :)

I'm not a musician, so maybe I'm all wrong about this, but here goes. It seems to me that one of the reasons for pursuing music as a career (in addition to $$ and picking up chicks) must have been some level of passion for the music. If that's true, then it also seems to me that it would be a good thing to have fans who also have a passion not just for music, but for YOUR music. Those fans would be the diehards. Furthermore, it seems like those fans would be the ones that would challenge you. You can please the casual fan by doing the hits with one hand tied behind your back . . . but night after night after night, is that really any fun? Wouldn't there be some level of enjoyment and satisfaction in adding something that would light up the faces of those crazies that you see in the crowd repeatedly? Yeah, it would take a little more preparation and there'd be a little more risk in it, but isn't that what gets the blood pumping? Did you really become a musician to play the same handful of songs on a nightly basis?

And then there's this. First we don't have ENOUGH diehards in the U.S. That's why we can't get setlists like they get in Europe. But now, because we shouldn't expect those setlists, we should just curtail our enthusiasm and see fewer shows. Hmm . . . maybe I'm nuts, but that doesn't seem like something that any band (hell, anyone selling any kind of product) would want to encourage!

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...the+us&spell=1

And now others are enabling the enabler! LOL

Sure, the Die Hard franchise has gone downhill but the first film was awesome and Bruce Willis is cool.

Oh, you weren't talking about the films?

Seriously though, I do think there's an element of truth here - we see so many shows, and some have seen some great ones, so others are bound to pale in comparison.

People complain often about mediocre setlists but this seems like one show of two I can think of (Hull, 2006 being the other) where people have said that the performance and other aspects let the show down too. With any job, you'll have off-days, and that's not to condone it - in their hometown you'd expect a killer show - but when they do so many shows, there are bound to be a few which dissapoint.

I've personally seen 4 shows - 1 in 2006, and 3 in 2008 - and I enjoyed all of them very much. I can't see myself going to more than 3 or 4 next summer, so I know my expectations won't be as high as some people's are, but I even enjoy hearing the classic songs. It's great to get some rare stuff, and I've had the fortune to hear a few of the rarer tracks - Dry County, Diamond Ring, I Believe - but even besides that, I just go to have a good time. I love the energy of a show, hearing 60,000 people singing along, the roar when they do start to play something people recognise - I don't go to shows just to hear rare songs. I've immensely enjoyed the shows I've been to and I bet I'll enjoy any others I go to aswell.

Terri - i totally agree - i dont understand being happy in the stale world of standard setlists for a real musician...

i also have never seen a bad show but strictly bec of the setlists will no longer be going to mulitple nights - i will however go to the very last night of the tour which will prob be in nj/nyc area as that usually has a better setlist.

i will also go to europe - with or without you... oh my u2?

set list rariety - song that hasnt been played repeatedly in said vicinity on last several tours.

open all night - yes
wildflower - yes
i am - super yes
Diamond Ring - yes
dry county - no, not in nj
LIS - no, not in nj
WITW no, not in nj
raise your hands - puhleazzze
SFTP every night which is great but no not a rariety
Captain - love it too but please - i actually found crash last time
ill sleep when im dead - have you lost your mind??

seperate groups of casual fans i know are bored
i wont be going to multiple nights bec of the above
the shows are always fun but unless they fix the setlist prob and the o2 barely qualifies so what are the odds (maybe, maybe on a GH tour they wont feel this way but that would be more real if they felt the desire to play anything off the current album which they ALWAYS did and even that they have abandonded)

ONE ROOT PROBLEM THIS TOUR
it isnt less vanilla than other tours simply bec if you went to multiple nights in one city YOU COULD AT LEAST COUNT ON GETTING DIFFERENT CUTS FROM THE NEW ALBUM. Thats has been completely discarded and i am just realizing has become my tipping point. You shouldnt really ever see the same show in the same area on the same tour. i did. unacceptable. someone give a copy of the circle to jon and tell him it is a good album. switching up 2 or 3 album cuts on multiple dates with minor other changes would prob get me back to multiples...

otherwise im out for multiple - will always go to one or two as the band is my favorite...

and it seems others feel the same...

diehards less shows
casuals may skip tours

bad bad trend...

esp when you are playing and sounding better than in years

anybody listening in joviland...????

wow totally agree and great link....what has happened....its like 2 diff people sometimes - i realize they was rare even back then but it doesnt have to be...

great link to see - thx! its there....somewhere...

Just to beat this topic up a little more - last night's Saratoga show was a perfect example of what I was talking about at the beginning of this thread. The show was short and the setlist very plain vanilla BUT it was a very good show. Jon and the band were ON - no other way to describe it. The vocals were excellent, the attitude was excellent and the audience was very appreciative. Had it been a normal night for them (ie no injuries) I'm sure we would have gotten more songs but it was obvious that Jon was hurting by the end of the show.

He was up on his feet all night - not sitting at all, as I expected - and he forgot a few times and did his usual moves which caused him some pain. By the end of the show he had had it physically.

One of the things that I appreciated about this show was the complete lack of production. This was a small *summer shed* venue with no room for the circle and no screens except smaller video screens on the side of the stage. The smaller screens were for viewing the band only - no other video was shown. Without the restrictions of the production the band could just play a rock show as they used to do. Jon did some ad-libbing and even started IBTFY over to tease Richie about Cher.

I will take this over the Meadowlands night 4, white bread, half assed show any day. I have no idea WHY the show was so bland, or why Jon's voice was so strained or why his timing was off so badly in KTF, but all those things, combined with Richie's mistakes made for a poor show in a very high profile venue. Various people who are not die-hards told me that they were looking at their watches after Bad Medicine.

you are gonna LOVE the crowes

so funny you used the term white bread - i just read star man...did you read that?

he used to call jbj white toast to get him fired up

That's because Michael Francis used to be with Led Zeppelin - compared to Zeppelin, Jovi was (and still is) white toast. And yes I have the book and have actually read it.

You are aware that I'm a huge Zeppelin fan but I didn't use that term even thinking of that - it was just *white bread* (bland and plain) with no punch or kick whatsoever. It was professional (barely) and nothing more.

And I already love the Crowes - the first time I saw them live was 1999 and they were playing with Jimmy Page (of - yes - Led Zeppelin LOL). With an introduction such as that you can't miss.