[Iceman]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Go talk to Slayer, Sepultura, Pantera etc fans...

How does that make an impact on the scene?

Most of the ones I talked to like Skid Row only because of Subhuman Race.

Again, how does that make an impact "on the scene"? Skid Row tried to go heavy, lost all their fans and gained 4 new ones.

Who the hell was talking about commercial success???

"Having an impact" means they influenced a lot of people. An album that sells only a few thousand copies isn't "making an impact". Losing all your fans isn't "making an impact." Just because one of your friends likes Skid Row because of that record doesn't mean it made an impact.

It flopped, badly. That's one of the reasons they broke up.

A flop in your opinion having only few huindred people at a show?

Yep, in my opinion and everyone elses. For a band that played to tens of thousands of people on their previous tour, that's REALLY bad.

How many people did Richie have during his European Tour? Still I consider Undiscovered Soul amazing.

You seem to have a problem with recognising that what YOU like might actually be a flop. You liking it has nothing to do with it. Both Richie's solo albums flopped badly. UD was many times worse than SITT, but they both flopped. Richie didn't make any money touring here, on the contrary, he lost money.

It doesn't matter if YOU think the albums were "amazing", Subhuman Race, SITT and UD were ALL flops.

Ice

[StoneDeaf]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Go talk to Slayer, Sepultura, Pantera etc fans...
Most of the ones I talked to like Skid Row only because of Subhuman Race.

Go ask those same fans u know about Bon Jovi. And if they don't like it, u are obligated to state out that Bon Jovi is officially crap.

Point is, you can't really compare Pantera-Slayer-Sepultura kind of metal with Skid Row. Of course people who are into heavier stuff are more into Subhuman Race, since it is bit different from dubut/2nd album. Also, I dont get the point of album that has no commercial success whatsoever having major impact on anything. It might have influenced a group of people, but to state that something has changed the scene forever, you start talking about acts like Metallica or Nirvana.

[DevilsSon]

Originally Posted by Iceman

How does that make an impact on the scene?

Again, how does that make an impact "on the scene"? Skid Row tried to go heavy, lost all their fans and gained 4 new ones.

"Having an impact" means they influenced a lot of people. An album that sells only a few thousand copies isn't "making an impact". Losing all your fans isn't "making an impact." Just because one of your friends likes Skid Row because of that record doesn't mean it made an impact.

It flopped, badly. That's one of the reasons they broke up.

Yep, in my opinion and everyone elses. For a band that played to tens of thousands of people on their previous tour, that's REALLY bad.

You seem to have a problem with recognising that what YOU like might actually be a flop. You liking it has nothing to do with it. Both Richie's solo albums flopped badly. UD was many times worse than SITT, but they both flopped. Richie didn't make any money touring here, on the contrary, he lost money.

It doesn't matter if YOU think the albums were "amazing", Subhuman Race, SITT and UD were ALL flops.

Ice

well, unfortunately, you prove again you talk only because you like to talk. No substance at all.


Having commercial success is completly different from having an impact on a scene.
I am actually sure SLAYER's SEASONS IN THE ABSYSS sold less than SUBHUMAN RACE. Still it's considered a MILESTONE in Thrash's history.
Again SLAYER's DIABOLUS IN MUSICA was even heavier and made Slayer lose half of their fans. But it was innovative and even if it sold considerably less than the previous Slayer albums it had a huge impact on THRASH/DEATH/HARDCORE albums that followed.
Only the fact that you brought money into this discussion is brainless. I mean...if 40 thrash metal bands say one of my fave albums is SUBHUMAN RACE by SKID ROW then it definetly had an impact on the scene no matter how much "money it earned".
Same with SITT(even if i don't think it had the same impact SUbhuman Race had)

[DevilsSon]

Originally Posted by StoneDeaf

Go ask those same fans u know about Bon Jovi. And if they don't like it, u are obligated to state out that Bon Jovi is officially crap.

If Bon Jovi release tomorrow an album like Subhuman Race i can guarantee al these people will tell me WOOOOW: BON JOVI ROCK DUUUUDE! Doesn't this mean the album had an impact on this SCENE? It's that easy and that's all I meant. It was pretty much the same as BJ had a clip for HEY GOD.

Point is, you can't really compare Pantera-Slayer-Sepultura kind of metal with Skid Row. Of course people who are into heavier stuff are more into Subhuman Race, since it is bit different from dubut/2nd album. Also, I dont get the point of album that has no commercial success whatsoever having major impact on anything. It might have influenced a group of people, but to state that something has changed the scene forever, you start talking about acts like Metallica or Nirvana.

None of the bands that are part of the heavy(and i mean more than heavy)rock scene(power metal,thrash, death)don't sell a lot. Metallica used to but they are no longer part of this scene. The point about selling a lot can't be added to this discussion. It's just stupid.
I mean you can't compare audiences. And having in mind that Subhuman Race sold more than similar albums brought out at the same time by big names of the heavy rock scene is an impact already.

[StoneDeaf]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

None of the bands that are part of the heavy(and i mean more than heavy)rock scene(power metal,thrash, death)don't sell a lot. Metallica used to but they are no longer part of this scene. The point about selling a lot can't be added to this discussion. It's just stupid.
I mean you can't compare audiences. And having in mind that Subhuman Race sold more than similar albums brought out at the same time by big names of the heavy rock scene is an impact already.

Well prove me wrong and point out some links to numbers that prove the fact that Subhuman race did sell so well. Scene, well if u can't compare acts like Metallica with heavyheaveHEAVY scene, u for sure can't compare Skid Row to it either. What comes to selling part....you're totally wrong. With sales comes the impact to the scene. I don't mean the band needs to top the charts, but to have any kind of impact u need 1) album that offers something new to the genre 2) same album selling enough to gain more attention than "few of your buddies". Few people talking with each other isn't impacting jack and shite. 3) setting some sort of new standard to the genre....or, something that starts a genre/brings underground crap to open. If you're talking about performing live, sure that can impact a lot. But you can't compare live performance to album's impact on anything.

Once again, if few of your buddies call it good it for sure doesn't equal having impact to scene.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

well, unfortunately, you prove again you talk only because you like to talk. No substance at all.

This from a boy who doesn't even know what the word "scene" means. It's not you and your friends, it's about the whole world. You might have your little "scene" in your house, but it doesn't mean Subhuman Race made any kind of impact on anything.

Having commercial success is completly different from having an impact on a scene.

No, it isn't. You can't have an impact on anything if no one buys your album. No band in the world will say they started to play because of Skid Row's Subhuman Race. Unless the band is made up of your friends.

I am actually sure SLAYER's SEASONS IN THE ABSYSS sold less than SUBHUMAN RACE.

Well, once again, you're actually wrong. All Slayer albums are certified gold in America, Subhuman Race isn't.

Still it's considered a MILESTONE in Thrash's history.

That's because it was. It was different and it sold well for a trash album. It had an impact. Subhuman Race was a sad attempt to be heavy and it sold jack shit.

Again SLAYER's DIABOLUS IN MUSICA was even heavier and made Slayer lose half of their fans. But it was innovative and even if it sold considerably less than the previous Slayer albums it had a huge impact on THRASH/DEATH/HARDCORE albums that followed.

Once again you're wrong. It sold considerably more than Subhuman Race. And yes, DIM had an impact, Subhuman Race didn't.

Are you starting to see the pattern here?

Only the fact that you brought money into this discussion is brainless.

Sorry, but you're the one who's brainless. Why don't you stop and think outside your ass for a second. You might actually learn something.

I mean...if 40 thrash metal bands say one of my fave albums is SUBHUMAN RACE by SKID ROW then it definetly had an impact on the scene no matter how much "money it earned".

No, it only means that the 40 bands you and your friends started have never heard proper metal records.

Once again, Subhuman Race only had an impact on Skid Rows career. They broke up. That's all the impact that record had. I'm sorry if you feel it's the best trash album ever made, because it's total and utter crap. I understand that you might think it's something special, after all, it was one of the first albums you probably got to buy, once you were old enough and western music was allowed there, but it's still crap.

Same with SITT(even if i don't think it had the same impact SUbhuman Race had)

SITT didn't have an impact on anybody else but a handful of Bon Jovi fans. It had in no way an impact to the scene.

Ice

[DevilsSon]

you understood bullshit of what i said.
How can metallica with songs like Nothing else Matters, The Unforgiven and all the stuff that came until Saint Anger be part of the Scene I am talking about?

Before The BLACK ALBUM Metallica was indeed part of that scene and they managed to sell a bit more than Slayer, Testamen or Death. However, they never were as heavy as this bands.

If I give buddies of mine as examples, it's only to make some points. I remember those days and Skid Row were played in all Underground rock bars. It certainly doesn't happen now....

I actually have a question...tell me 10 albums you consider they had an impact on the scene I am talking bout, StoneDeaf and than we'll keep on talkin'!

[DevilsSon]

Originally Posted by Iceman

This from a boy who doesn't even know what the word "scene" means. It's not you and your friends, it's about the whole world.

oh oh oh...look what a solid argument again. "this is from a boy"...and "your friends". You don't know anything. And I bet you now have in your mind: "I have seen how you behave!"..blah blah stuff.
Well I just tell you, in my opinion you are somebody who tried to make something but never managed to do so. You are probably still wondering why this is so. Well...it had just as much to do with Subhuman Race as your comment.

Originally Posted by Iceman

No, it isn't. You can't have an impact on anything if no one buys your album. No band in the world will say they started to play because of Skid Row's Subhuman Race. Unless the band is made up of your friends.

Originally Posted by Iceman

Well, once again, you're actually wrong. All Slayer albums are certified gold in America, Subhuman Race isn't.

What bullshit you are talking again. Actually only 3 of Slayer's records were certified GOLD. They are all close to gold but none of them sold more than 500 000 records. On the other hand, this is not the first time you build up one of your pseudo-arguments on imagined facts. As I said: you post only because you like to post and you like to read your posts...there's a word in Romanian for that:RATAT!

Originally Posted by Iceman

That's because it was. It was different and it sold well for a trash album. It had an impact. Subhuman Race was a sad attempt to be heavy and it sold jack ****.

Originally Posted by Iceman

Once again you're wrong. It sold considerably more than Subhuman Race. And yes, DIM had an impact, Subhuman Race didn't.

HAHA?
What ? DIB sold nothing. You talk bullshit. Again...you just make me want to puke. Why do you make things up? DIB is the worst selling SLAYER ALBUM. It basically sold NOTHING! They were in the exactly same situation as Skid Row after releasing Subhuman Race. Nobody went to their shows. They were boo-ed offstage as they toured with Iron Maiden and Dream Theater. Beleive me, I was there and it hurt since I was a huge Slayer fan. But you just make me laugh. As I said: NO SUBSTANCE...you just talk...and it's not even trueBy the way: SUBHUMAN RACE made it to the TOP 40...DIM didn't!!!

Originally Posted by Iceman

Sorry, but you're the one who's brainless. Why don't you stop and think outside your ass for a second. You might actually learn something.

learn what? how to lie so it seems true? Oh yes...very convincing made up facts. And look who talks a bout being a "boy". Some guy who believes he is a great musician, a guy who tries to deceieve people here just because he never made anything in his real life. Yes...you are a great model Ice. I would call you a neo-romantic. You don't flee into an imaginary world but into a virtual one.

Originally Posted by Iceman

No, it only means that the 40 bands you and your friends started have never heard proper metal records.

Of course mate! We never heard proper metal...
40 bands that i started....that means more than 160 people...wow. That means I had more impact than Skid Row thierselves. All right man! I love the way you think

Originally Posted by Iceman

I'm sorry if you feel it's the best trash album ever made, because it's total and utter crap. I understand that you might think it's something special, after all, it was one of the first albums you probably got to buy, once you were old enough and western music was allowed there, but it's still crap.

Yes Mr. Wiseman....as usually you are so sure of the bullshit you are talking. One of the first? ROmania was a music paradise for the first few years after Communism.There were all this pirate companies which sold anything for peanuts.When Subhuman Race came out this market was already going down. But on the other hand...I guess you don't even know that Subhuman Race came out 1995 when we already wanted to join the NATO and we were talking with the European Union. But it doesn't matter anyway.

Originally Posted by Iceman

SITT didn't have an impact on anybody else but a handful of Bon Jovi fans. It had in no way an impact to the scene.

Ice

Well...whatever dude! I am just a boy...what do I know?!

[StoneDeaf]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

you understood bullshit of what i said.
How can metallica with songs like Nothing else Matters, The Unforgiven and all the stuff that came until Saint Anger be part of the Scene I am talking about?

Did I ever said a word about black album? Kill 'Em all changed metal forever, you can't deny that. Btw, I'll give u whatever list u want as soon as u post those links that proves Subhuman race selling oh so well.

U might have your little scene where ur located at, and who knows what impacts it. I was looking at things on worldwide scale.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Well I just tell you, in my opinion you are somebody who tried to make something but never managed to do so. You are probably still wondering why this is so. Well...it had just as much to do with Subhuman Race as your comment.

Your comment had nothing to do with this "discussion", mine did. I proved you had no idea what a "scene" is. And you proved me right. As to me, you don't know anything about me.

What bullshit you are talking again. Actually only 3 of Slayer's records were certified GOLD. They are all close to gold but none of them sold more than 500 000 records. On the other hand, this is not the first time you build up one of your pseudo-arguments on imagined facts. As I said: you post only because you like to post and you like to read your posts...there's a word in Romanian for that:RATAT!

Right back atcha, baby. Go to http://www.riaa.com/gp/database/default.asp and do a search on Slayer. Diabolus isn't certified, others are.

What ? DIB sold nothing. You talk bullshit. Again...you just make me want to puke. Why do you make things up? DIB is the worst selling SLAYER ALBUM. It basically sold NOTHING!

Still more than Subhuman Race.

They were in the exactly same situation as Skid Row after releasing Subhuman Race. Nobody went to their shows. They were boo-ed offstage as they toured with Iron Maiden and Dream Theater. Beleive me, I was there and it hurt since I was a huge Slayer fan. But you just make me laugh. As I said: NO SUBSTANCE...you just talk...and it's not even true

Is that what you call "making an impact"?

By the way: SUBHUMAN RACE made it to the TOP 40...DIM didn't!!!

In what country?

learn what? how to lie so it seems true? Oh yes...very convincing made up facts.

Yeah, I'd consider the Recording Industry Association of America pretty factual, but you probably have better info.

And look who talks a bout being a "boy". Some guy who believes he is a great musician, a guy who tries to deceieve people here just because he never made anything in his real life.

Once again you're talking about thing you have NO clue about. You know nothing about me, even though you like to think you do. You don't even know WHAT I do, little alone HOW I do.

Yes...you are a great model Ice. I would call you a neo-romantic. You don't flee into an imaginary world but into a virtual one.

Wow. Some psycho-analyst is going to have a field day with you someday.

Of course mate! We never heard proper metal...
40 bands that i started....that means more than 160 people...wow. That means I had more impact than Skid Row thierselves. All right man! I love the way you think

Once again you're showing you know absolutely nothing of the meaning of the words "impact" or "scene".

Originally Posted by Iceman

Yes Mr. Wiseman....as usually you are so sure of the bullshit you are talking. One of the first? ROmania was a music paradise for the first few years after Communism.There were all this pirate companies which sold anything for peanuts.When Subhuman Race came out this market was already going down. But on the other hand...I guess you don't even know that Subhuman Race came out 1995 when we already wanted to join the NATO and we were talking with the European Union. But it doesn't matter anyway.

No, I was just pissing you off. As to NATO, anyone who said they hated the Soviets got in. And EU still hasn't let you guys in.

Originally Posted by Iceman

Well...whatever dude! I am just a boy...what do I know?!

Glad you figured that out.

Ice