[Arash]

anyone here got that dvd? how is it? is it something like S&M?

[JOEYKID]

its nothing like S&M as it has a good artist performing.

its is pretty poor to be honest, i mean its great to watch if your a kiss fan but as far as music dvds go its not all that, same with the cd, nothing special, not what it should of been

[Ballad of Youth]

Bit harsh there about Metallica, lol. I loved S&M, I think it was the greatest display of musicality I've seen and showed their talents, even if you don't like the sound of their music.

Kiss, hmm, seen it once and it seemed like a poor imitation.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Ballad of Youth

I loved S&M, I think it was the greatest display of musicality I've seen and showed their talents, even if you don't like the sound of their music.

As if Metallica had anything to do with the arrangements...

Kiss, hmm, seen it once and it seemed like a poor imitation.

Nope, it's not an imitation, it's been done before Metallica too.

Anyway, the DVD is great, the picture is crystal clear and the sound is great, better than on the CD. The set itself is okay and the band is in top form, if you don't count Peter, who's pretty lost in the newer songs (Forever anyone?).

Worth the money.

Ice

[*ºÇåptäîn¤Çrä§hº*]

I have only the 2CD set. Since I think it is great I think the DVD should be, too, if audio and video are just half as good as Ice described.

[Ballad of Youth]

Oh no, I didn't think they were imitating Metallica, I know they weren't the first to do it. The conductor Michael Kamen had done it with plenty of bands before Metallica. I mean that it didn't sound as good. The arrangements for Kiss weren't that good for me compared to Metallica as it sounded very mucky.

Metallica didn't write the arrangements, no, but they did have some input into them. I don't think people give heavy metal musicians enough credit because even to get far in heavy metal you need a very musical ear. And performing the arrangements in an orchestral situation, where every note has to be right, and actually play WITH the orchestra as opposed to OVER them, takes musicality.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Ballad of Youth

I don't think people give heavy metal musicians enough credit because even to get far in heavy metal you need a very musical ear.

You don't play, do you?

And performing the arrangements in an orchestral situation, where every note has to be right, and actually play WITH the orchestra as opposed to OVER them, takes musicality.

Actually, it's more about getting the orchestra playing with the band. And it doesn't take musicality as such, but rhythm, and feel.

Ice

[Ballad of Youth]

Rhythm and feel IS musicality. It's the kind of musical talent that cannot be taught. And playing with an orchestra is a two part process. Yes, the orchestra does have to get in swing with the band, but it also works the other way. And for the orchestra to be able to play with the band, the band needs to be playing in a way which is easy to pick up.

I do also play in a band. I sing Metallica, Muse, Bon Jovi etc.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Ballad of Youth

Rhythm and feel IS musicality.

Nope. There are people who couldn't sing if their life depended on it, can't hear the problem with out-of-tune-guitar or piano, or hear when a bad plays badly but still have a great sense of rhtyhm.

It's the kind of musical talent that cannot be taught.

It's a talent, but it has nothing to do with "having a good ear".

I do also play in a band. I sing Metallica, Muse, Bon Jovi etc.

Singing isn't playing. And Michael Kamen did all the arrangements, conducted the orchestra, etc. Metallica came in and played their stuff. James can't read or write notes, how do you think he'd work with an orchestra. I just saw a documentary on the Black Album and they talked about the S&M-thing too. James said that Michael did everything, he thought he had to show the songs to the orchestra with a guitar....

Ice

[*ºÇåptäîn¤Çrä§hº*]

Originally Posted by Ballad of Youth

Yes, the orchestra does have to get in swing with the band, but it also works the other way.

It only works the other way as far as the band has to keep the songs straight, especially the drummer, since every unwanted tempo change would be fatal for an orchestra, or at least far more difficult to solve as for the rest of the band.