[Raz0r]

It was an album that became myth, and then became a joke. In the making since 1997, released in 2008, and the most expensive album ever made. It sold a few million copies world wide, but is widely considered a failure. Despite being one of the most anticipated albums of all time, it's release was a non-event. Many GNR fans haven't even listened to it. Many GNR fans down right hate it.

But it's a great ****ing album. Despite only featuring 2 members from the Use You Illusion era of the band, this album could have easily been titled Use Your Illusion III, as it is heavy in epic power ballads ala UYI.

I love the album, and feel it's under appreciated. So I'm starting this thread to post positive reviews, and articles about it. Hopefully, it'll encourage some fans that haven't listened to it out of bias due to it's history, to actually give it a fair chance.

Listen to the album on YouTube: http://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=P...Y2RNUVPuOirT7e

Not familiar with the epic history of the making of Chinese Democracy? Check it out here: http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=5059

[Dave 1986]

I like the album a lot but I don't agree with it being a Use Your Illusion III. It sounds nothing like the first two for a start, and probably the bigger point is it's not even the same band. That's like saying Velvet Revolvers Contraband could be Appetite for Destruction II. UYI are way more bluesy and organic where as CD is much more intense. The production is much more processed it sound very industrial in parts.

[Raz0r]

Hey Dave, glad you enjoy CD too, and good points. I agree and disagree. I agree that UYI is more bluesy and fluid, and that CD has industrial elements and is more choppy. Still, I think the similarities to the illusions are strong. Specifically the tracks, This I Love, There Was A Time, If The World, IRS, and Catcher in the Rye, remind me a lot of the epic power ballads on the illusions, like Locomotive, Estranged, November Rain, and Coma.

[Raz0r]

Many GNR fans haven't given Chinese Democracy a chance because it doesn't feature Slash in the band.

After Appetite for Destruction, GNR lost drummer Steven Adler and rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin. During the UYI tour, the band featured 3 new members, Gibby Clark, Matt Sorum, and Dizzy Reed. But they were still GNR. That changed in 1996 when Slash left the band. At the time, original bassist Duff McKegan was still in the mix, but to many fans it didn't matter. GNR was Axl and Slash, and when Slash quit the band, GNR was over.

You would think that Slash would be CD's biggest critic, but surprisingly Slash enjoyed the album and had some kind words for it in interviews back in 2008.

http://www.musicradar.com/us/news/gu...atement-172820

"I already listened to it," Slash revealed during a recent interview. "At first I thought that I would never listen to it until it's released, but someone handed it to me and I was in my car and I was like 'Okay, let's give it a try.'

"So I listened to it: It's a really good record. It's very different from what the original Guns N' Roses sounded like, but it's a great statement by Axl. Now you understand where he was heading all this time. It's a record that the original Guns N' Roses could never possibly make. And at the same time it just shows you how brilliant Axl is. So it was a relief for me to actually hear it."

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/sla...ct-axl-record/

Slash: It was the perfect Axl record — exactly what I would have expected from the final years of us working together, and seeing where he was headed musically. It's very heavy; sort of a dark, depressing record. He's ****ing phenomenal.

[Raz0r]

http://www.allmusic.com/album/chines...y-mw0000802741

Review by Stephen Thomas Erlewine
To put Chinese Democracy in some perspective: it arrives 17 years after the twin Use Your Illusion, the last set of original music by Guns N' Roses. Consider that 17 years prior to the Illusions, it was 1974, back before the Ramones and Sex Pistols, back before Aerosmith had Rocks and Toys in the Attic, back before Queen had A Night at the Opera -- back before almost anything that Axl Rose worships even existed. Generations have passed in these 17 years, but not for Axl. He cut himself off from the world following the trouble-ridden Use Your Illusion tour, retreating to the Hollywood Hills, swapping every original GNR member in favor of contract players culled from his mid-'90s musical obsessions -- Tommy Stinson from the Replacements, Robin Finck from Nine Inch Nails, Buckethead from guitar magazines -- as he turned into rock's Charles Foster Kane, a genius in self-imposed exile spending millions to make his own Xanadu, Chinese Democracy. Like Xanadu, Chinese Democracy is a monument to man's might, but where Kane sought to bring the world underneath his roof, Axl labored to create an ideal version of his inner world, working endlessly on a set of songs about his heartbreak, persecution, and paranoia, topics well mined on the Illusions. Using the pompous ten-minute epics "Estranged" and "November Rain" as his foundation, Axl strips away all remnants of the old, snake-dancing GNR, shedding the black humor and blues, replacing any good times with vindictive spleen in the vein of "You Could Be Mine." All this melodrama and malevolence feels familiar and, surprisingly, so does much of Chinese Democracy, even for those listeners who didn't hear the portions of the record as leaked demos and live tracks. Despite a few surface flourishes -- all the endless, evident hours spent on Pro Tools, a hip-hop loop here, a Spanish six-string there, absurd elastic guitar effects -- this is an album unconcerned with the future of rock & roll. One listen and it's abundantly clear that Axl spent the decade-plus in the studio not reinventing but refining, obsessing over a handful of tracks, and spending an inordinate amount of time chasing the sound in his head -- that's it, no more, no less. Such maniacal indulgence is ridiculous but strangely understandable: Rose received unlimited time and money to create this album, so why not take full advantage and obsess over every last detail? The odd thing is, he spent all this time and money on an album that is deliberately not a grand masterpiece -- a record that pushes limits or digs deep -- but merely a set of 14 songs. Compared to the chaotic Use Your Illusion, Chinese Democracy feels strangely modest, but that's because it's a single polished album, not a double album so overstuffed that it duplicates songs. Modest is an odd word for an album a decade-plus in the making, but Axl's intent is oddly simple: he sees GNR not as a gutter-rock band but as a pomp-rock vehicle for him to lash out against all those who don't trust him, whether it's failed friends, lapsed fans, ex-lovers, former managers, fired bandmates, or rock critics. Chinese Democracy is the best articulation of this megalomania as could be possible, so the only thing to quibble about is his execution, which occasionally is perplexing, particularly when Rose slides into hammy vocal inflections or encourages complicated guitar that only guitarists appreciate (it's telling that the only memorable phrases from Robin Finck, Buckethead, or Bumblefoot or whoever are ones that mimic Slash's full-throated melodic growl). Even with these odd flourishes, it's hard not to marvel, either in respect or bewilderment, at the dense, immaculate wall of god knows how many guitars, synthesizers, vocals, and strings. The production is so dense that it's hard to warm to, but it fits the music. These aren't songs that grab and hold; they're songs that unfold, so much so that Chinese Democracy may seem a little underwhelming upon its first listen. It's not just the years of pent-up anticipation, it's that Axl spent so much time creating the music -- constructing the structure and then filling out the frame -- that there's no easy way into the album. That, combined with the realization that Axl isn't trying to reinvent GNR, but just finishing what he started on the Illusions, can make Chinese Democracy seem mildly anticlimactic, but Rose spent a decade-plus working on this -- he deserves to not have it dismissed on a cursory listen. Give it time, listening like it was 1998 and not 2008, and the album does give up some terrific music -- music that is overblown but not overdone. True, those good moments are the songs that have kicked around the Internet for the entirety of the new millennium: the slinky, spiteful "Better," slowly building into its fury; the quite gorgeous if heavy-handed "Street of Dreams"; "There Was a Time," which overcomes its acronym and lack of chorus on its sheer drama; "Catcher in the Rye," the lightest, brightest moment here; the slow, grinding "I.R.S."; and "Madagascar," a ludicrous rueful rumination that finds space for quotations from Martin Luther King amidst its trip-hop pulse. These aren't innovations; they're extensions of "Breakdown" and "Estranged," epics that require some work to decode because Axl forces the listener to meet him on his own terms. This all-consuming artistic narcissism has become Rose's defining trait, not letting him move forward, but only to relentlessly explore the same territory over and over again. And this solipsism turns Chinese Democracy into something strangely, surprisingly simple: it won't change music, it won't change any lives, it's just 14 more songs about loneliness and persecution. Or as Axl put it in an apology for canceled concerts in 2006, "In the end, it's just an album." And it's a good album, no less and no more.

[Alphavictim]

Originally Posted by Raz0r

After Appetite for Destruction, GNR lost drummer Steven Adler and rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin.

Izzy wrote a ton of the Illusions material, sang lead on some of the songs and did some touring after the release as well. Him leaving pretty much broke the band AFAIC.

[Raz0r]

Originally Posted by Alphavictim

Izzy wrote a ton of the Illusions material, sang lead on some of the songs and did some touring after the release as well. Him leaving pretty much broke the band AFAIC.

Indeed. Technically Steven contributed some drum parts to UYI too, but Izzy was there through the recording, and didn't leave until the beginnings of the UYI tour.

I didn't meant to be deceptive with statement, I was just trying to put into perspective how important Slash was to most fans. Though, arguably, Izzy leaving was the beginning of the end.

[Alphavictim]

Also, I enjoyed two songs from CD: Sorry and This I Love. It's too overblown and long-winded for my liking. Shackler's Revenge has a catchy chorus, but the production ruins the track for me. It's not a bad record, though - I already problems with the epic ballads on the Illusions. My favorites from that record were the more concise tracks. If you're into the epic stuff, I suppose tracks like Madagascar will be right up your alley.

Me, I would love to hear Checkmate in full.

[Raz0r]

I really want to hear Soul Monster and The General. Soul Monster is supposed to sound almost like Black Sabbath, and The General is supposed to be a glam rock November Rain type song. I really like to hear the Silkworms remix in full.

[Raz0r]

Chuck Klosterman reviews Chinese Democracy

By Chuck Klosterman Nov 18, 2008 11:04 PM
A-
Guns N' Roses
Album: Chinese Democracy
Label: Geffen
Guest reviewer Chuck Klosterman is the author of five books, including Fargo Rock City: A Heavy Metal Odyssey In Rural North Dakota and the new novel Downtown Owl. There is no one in the world more qualified to review the exhaustingly anticipated new Guns N' Roses album than he is.

Reviewing Chinese Democracy is not like reviewing music. It's more like reviewing a unicorn. Should I primarily be blown away that it exists at all? Am I supposed to compare it to conventional horses? To a rhinoceros? Does its pre-existing mythology impact its actual value, or must it be examined inside a cultural vacuum, as if this creature is no more (or less) special than the remainder of the animal kingdom? I've been thinking about this record for 15 years; during that span, I've thought about this record more than I've thought about China, and maybe as much as I've thought about the principles of democracy. This is a little like when that grizzly bear finally ate Timothy Treadwell: Intellectually, he always knew it was coming. He had to. His very existence was built around that conclusion. But you still can't psychologically prepare for the bear who eats you alive, particularly if the bear wears cornrows.

Here are the simple things about Chinese Democracy: Three of the songs are astonishing. Four or five others are very good. The vocals are brilliantly recorded, and the guitar playing is (generally) more interesting than the guitar playing on the Use Your Illusion albums. Axl Rose made some curious (and absolutely unnecessary) decisions throughout the assembly of this project, but that works to his advantage as often as it detracts from the larger experience. So: Chinese Democracy is good. Under any halfway normal circumstance, I would give it an A.

But nothing about these circumstances is normal. Read more: http://www.avclub.com/review/chuck-k...democracy-2539