Can you hear Richie's absence from THINFS?

symbeline · #61 08-20-2016, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

Attorneys is a little overboard. Its different chords in a different key. If it wasnt solo right after the solo like it was in HAND I don't think itd be as noticeable.

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I was kidding of course. Now that Richie has learn to play the PR game as good as Jon, all is good in Jovi land

symbeline · #62 08-20-2016, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by symbeline

C'mon people. To a BJ fan it would sound like the HAND riff and that's what I'm referring to.

It's the first thing that came to mind when I heard the song. How strange that it sounds too similar to HAND. Most of their songs sound like IML, to a non guitar player or a basic one, it's the same chord progression so it sounds the same every time. But this time they added the HAND touch.

Innocence coincidence? Who knows (I say it's not lol), that's why I was asking in this thread.

It's almost as if Shanks is saying "now you'll see who's been a busy bee for the past 10 years".

It doesn't seem very clever on Jon's part, it could seem as if he's mocking/debasing Richie to some overzealous fans. I remember how much praise Richie got for this record, for going back to a rockier sound in many tracks after their stint in pop rock (Bounce is mostly ignored by many casuals and critics, at least in my experience). Some songs are mostly remembered for Richie's contribution. So why chose that particular record/song?

I heard other songs in THINFS but you have to admit the first thing almost everybody said was HAND. I don't know if it's a faux pass on their part. I can understand underlying that this new record may be rockier by going back to their last *rock* record. But I still think it's strange to reuse something that in the eyes of many is Richie's.

Also, going out on a limb here, is it possible that Jon doesn't even remember this riff or can't distinguish it from another in their huge catalog?

It's not Jon's job, so maybe if Shanks decided to use it for whatever reason, including him being the original creator and wanting to shout it from the rooftops, would it get past Jon's radar?

I found it highly improbable, but Jon tends to forget almost every new song he writes...

Javier · #63 08-20-2016, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by symbeline

C'mon people. To a BJ fan it would sound like the HAND riff and that's what I'm referring to.

It's the first thing that came to mind when I heard the song. How strange that it sounds too similar to HAND. Most of their songs sound like IML, to a non guitar player or a basic one, it's the same chord progression so it sounds the same every time. But this time they added the HAND touch.

Innocence coincidence? Who knows (I say it's not lol), that's why I was asking in this thread.

It's almost as if Shanks is saying "now you'll see who's been a busy bee for the past 10 years".

It doesn't seem very clever on Jon's part, it could seem as if he's mocking/debasing Richie to some overzealous fans. I remember how much praise Richie got for this record, for going back to a rockier sound in many tracks after their stint in pop rock (Bounce is mostly ignored by many casuals and critics, at least in my experience). Some songs are mostly remembered for Richie's contribution. So why chose that particular record/song?

I heard other songs in THINFS but you have to admit the first thing almost everybody said was HAND. I don't know if it's a faux pass on their part. I can understand underlying that this new record may be rockier by going back to their last *rock* record. But I still think it's strange to reuse something that in the eyes of many is Richie's.

I give up, some people will see the negative side to everything Jon and/or Richie does. Plenty of bands go back and do songs that resemble their earlier works, both intentionally and unintentionally. The scenario you are painting is about as stupid as any mind would be able to conjure up and for the faith I still for some reason have in humanity I really and truly hope you're purposely exaggerating and taking the piss out of the situation.....

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Captain_jovi · #64 08-20-2016, 07:06 PM

The rationale is coming up more jon bad Richie good than anything else. Not even worth breaking down into how silly it is.

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symbeline · #65 08-20-2016, 07:56 PM

Javier, you mistake me for someone else.

I'm really interested in what do you think about choosing that particular song in terms of Richie/John Shanks contribution to the band. Of all the songs they could have chosen.

I merely pointed out that some fans could see a dig since it's my experience that many fans loved Richie's guitars in HAND and thought it was all him in the record, and always mention both things together (as in HAND was a great record thanks to Richie) and I questioned whether they thought it would be a good idea or simply didn't think about it.

Edit: I do think it's not a coincidence, but as I said several times, it seems a Shanks choice. I asked specifically if Jon would have a say in something as specific as a guitar riff or would leave it to Shanks

Bleeding Purist · #66 08-20-2016, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by symbeline

Javier, you mistake me for someone else.

I'm really interested in what do you think about choosing that particular song in terms of Richie/John Shanks contribution to the band. Of all the songs they could have chosen.

I merely pointed out that some fans could see a dig since it's my experience that many fans loved Richie's guitars in HAND and thought it was all him in the record, and always mention both things together (as in HAND was a great record thanks to Richie) and I questioned whether they thought it would be a good idea or simply didn't think about it.

Edit: I do think it's not a coincidence, but as I said several times, it seems a Shanks choice. I asked specifically if Jon would have a say in something as specific as a guitar riff or would leave it to Shanks

I'm with Javier and Matt. This is looking for something that isn't there. Yes, the opening and return to the chorus following the solo remind me of HAND, but the song as a whole draws from other past material as well... HAND is just one of those. As far as those being HAND chords.....they're the chords for a whole grip of rock songs. All I'm getting from it is that they intend for the album as a whole to be a back to basics rock guitar oriented album and they mean for the opening chords of the first single to announce that.

Are we seriously going to keep coming up with "this is a dig at Richie" during this whole cycle? We did this with Burning Bridges. I'm certain Jon has moved on at this point and is focused on creating/launching new music as opposed to childish soap opera drama.

rolo_tomachi · #67 08-20-2016, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javier

I give up, some people will see the negative side to everything Jon and/or Richie does. Plenty of bands go back and do songs that resemble their earlier works, both intentionally and unintentionally. The scenario you are painting is about as stupid as any mind would be able to conjure up and for the faith I still for some reason have in humanity I really and truly hope you're purposely exaggerating and taking the piss out of the situation.....

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I completely agree with this. In the last albums, Jon has always recycled things of the past. "Whats Left Of Me" sounds "Someday I'll Be Saturday Night" and "Lost Highway". I remember the scandalous introduction of "Working Man", that was a rip off of "Living On A Prayer". In "This House Is Not For Sale" make that mistake again. Jon know that not there is "the song or riff by Richie", everything belongs to the band. I have noticed that many other bands make the same mistakes recycling their past songs; U2, Metallica and even lately Foo Fighters, bands that I love by the way.

What did Richie in "Have a Nice Day", they can not overcome today. To overcome this, they needs have balls for rocking.

Captain_jovi · #68 08-20-2016, 08:28 PM

Its not the same riff, come on people!!!

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It's my faith · #69 08-20-2016, 08:29 PM

I find very interesting your thoughts about the "re-use" of HAND intro and maybe plausible. But I think the truth can be a lot simpler: The HAND as a song was a hit and the formula they used, which is similar to IML's formula, is very catchy and successful. You know, the guitar chords intro, the high melody and backing vocals on chorus, the solo, the bridge-intro-guitar-again and the chorus for one last time!

So they reused this formula, as they sometimes do with "their" formulas (example: IML -> Bounce -> HAND -> This is Love This is Life -> WDR). I strongly believe that they made the riff too similar to HAND's in order to make it sound more "Bon Jovi", and HAND is like a trademark for them (but not the only).

For the question "can they use a riff that maybe is written by Sambora?" I guess yes, they do. They didn't ask Richie of course, and I don't think he has a problem with that, HAND is a released Bon Jovi (the band) song.

One other reason that I think Jon and the guys used the HAND intro Not to mock Sambora is that they have some class, they aren't children! I just can't see JBJ and Shanks rubbing their HANDs (see what I did here? :P ) saying "hehe and now we will show Richie that we don't need him"... not literally doing this but something like this and less dramatized....

Captain_jovi · #70 08-20-2016, 09:46 PM

Both have a capo on the second fret. If I recall, This House is Em/G, G, Cadd9, G with the root note descending in between each go around. HAND is Bm, D, G, D, A. They're similar, I admit that. HAND had an acoustic and a baritone below, House is more raw in production of the main chord progression (thankfully). Had it not been arranged the same way HAND was (guitar alone in the intro and after the solo) I guarantee we would not be talking about this because it's a different chord progression.

Can you hear Richie's absence from THINFS?

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